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#161 Re: Guns N' Roses » LEAKS THREAD » 443 weeks ago
It could be real or fan made really. That's the fun of 2000era GNR - That guitar sound is just amateur enough that it could be one of us, or like a bedroom-best friend promoted to rhythm guitarist or a circus guitarist hired to replace slash
Uh huh.
That's a pretty amazing point in the CD saga. The money was (mostly) spent on renting a luxurious studio with quality gear and having peeps idle in it, because Ax can't be arsed to show up and lead the way. What he wanted was a sample library, of which songs could be compiled. When you lack any overarching ideas, getting a ton of options may seem like a way through.
It puts a different spin to the Interscope woes, surely. What they would've heard more often than not was an incoherent mess. Robin's lead guitar on CITR is a painful example; it doesn't sound like he's actually playing it, rather than it was put together from a half a dozen takes. Making everything aside the vocals interchangeable only exasperated the issue.
For all his writing cred, Paul Tobias finds himself a bit exposed now...
#162 Re: Guns N' Roses » LEAKS THREAD » 443 weeks ago
Why do you guys figure it's from 2001?
#163 Re: Guns N' Roses » LEAKS THREAD » 443 weeks ago
Ezrin comments here.
Like Tom Zutaut the next year, Ezrin was another A&R Man Jimmy Iovine threw into the mix to rein in the process. Seems like OMG's lukewarm reception distraught both Axl and Iovine.
If you take the 2001 date at face value that would mean Josh Freese was still featured on drums not Brain and Buckethead was only half-integrated.
I seriously doubt this being a 2001 Maddy. Brain went in-depth about his kit on it, and the Boston promo gives an inkling of RTB's production style. This is not it.
#164 Re: Guns N' Roses » LEAKS THREAD » 443 weeks ago
Plot thickens.
"We're still hoping to have Brian May come in and do some tracks, and I got a fax today that he's coming in." (Axl, MTV, 11/08/99)
"[Axl] was talking to Roy Thomas Baker, who was doing some production for them at the time, and they came up with the idea of contacting me to help them work out a direction." (Brian May, Uncut Magazine, 04/11)
"Axl was feeling he that was in a difficult place, because the guitarist he'd been working with on this new album, [...] that'd done most of the tracks, had departed and Axl had a real emotional attachment to what he'd done, and yet [...] he didn't really want him to stay on the album because he'd disappeared, you know." (Brian May, Radio One Rock Show, 05/10/00)
"[Axl] said, 'Brian can you come and do stuff which I will like and I won't feel too bad about ditching this other stuff?'. So I did. I went over there and I think I played on three tracks and messed around on various other things. But it worked out pretty well, as far as I can tell." (Brian May, Radio One Rock Show, 05/10/00)
So, Axl started talking to RTB about polishing up the album for release around the time Robin left. Axl and RTB got the idea of contacting Brian May, albeit the May sessions were produced by Beavan, as confirmed by Axl. Then in came Bucket, and RTB somewhat later, as Beavan, likely running out of contract in early '00, bowed out gracefully.
Still. There could be some demos with Josh and Buckethead. This could also be just a reference mix before they replaced Brain's rerecorded drums.
The infamous 'three good songs' album from mid-2000 featured Josh on drums. Some of Robin's stuff likely remained, but Brian May and Bucket were included. I think that after Bob Ezrin deemed the album needed fixing, they started re-doing the drums.
#165 Re: Guns N' Roses » LEAKS THREAD » 443 weeks ago
Buckethead joined (or "auditioned" over a handful of jams) in around December '99. His buddy, Josh Freese, got Camp Axl in touch with him. This was after Brian May had come in, and worked on Catcher, Atlas, and a third song. Bucket called Brain after Josh left. Brain was then auditioned by a snotty Tommy Stinson. This was after the Primus tour, in the summer of 2000.
#166 Re: Guns N' Roses » LEAKS THREAD » 443 weeks ago
I stand corrected. We have one more of the many Madagascars.
IMO, there's absolutely no Robin in this version. And the drums reminded me of Josh Freese's tone in the other 1999 leaks.
might be one of those versions that had Robin deleted - after he left the band in 1999, with some later touches by RTB in 2000/2001, regardless of that Robin got back by that time.
Yep. But it's different from what we got previously. We had IRS (both in 1999 and 2000-ish) that still had tons of Robin's leads. Catcher 99 still had Robin's leads mixed with May's solos. TWAT too still had Robin. It's not like he was erased, he was still there - much like Bucket was still very much present in almost all of the final album.
Yes, this sounds like it's from the transitional period between Beavan/Robin and RTB/Bucket in early 2000. As you said, the drums sound more Josh than Brain.
Hard to say for sure, but this is definitely the oldest version of Maddy so far.
Rhythm guitar is n`t good. Probably Axl smashes those power chords himself.
My thoughts exactly 
"I can do rhythm gtr."
"Er, boss..."
"Yeees?"
"Um, sounds great."
this is, together with existing 2001/2 live versions, a good example of what RTB was trying to do - he was hired, because the previous Beavan mixes were considered somewhat too "modern" and they needed to make the stuff more "classic".
And you can hear the Beavan influence therein, like in the outro. In retrospect, they should've released the album under the 'solo album' clause and gotten over it. Whenever I look at a prolonged creative endeavor like CD, there's always that decision to 'upgrade' things as the first incarnation is nearly done. It's a sure-fire way to run the project to the ground. You can't make the songs better so easily, they have a natural lifespan in the studio and beyond that, it's diminishing returns.
what Beavan did with Marilyn Manson just a few years ago (he produced Portrait, Antichrist Superstar and Mechanical Animals, and especially the latter two of them have MASSIVELY great sound). I'd still take ANY Beavan mix before ANYTHING else from RTB or later time.
still, this is an interesting insight into work-in-progress at one of the track we are very familiar with.
I think Beavan was a full producer only on Mechanical Animals. Trent and Manson produced ACSS.
Aside that, what you said. What's been established well before this cut is that the album was always in shambles. There was never a definite version of any song we've heard. The album cuts are bloated and poorly mixed (that's right, Axl & Caram). Part of the problem was obviously that there were too many options accumulated over the years and they ended up compiling everything from sub-bass to superfluous overdubs, because more is more.
#167 Re: Guns N' Roses » LEAKS THREAD » 443 weeks ago
I have it on good authority that by this time tomorrow the fans will have a 2001 song
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EbxmAoWGqzk#t=233
#168 Re: Guns N' Roses » LEAKS THREAD » 444 weeks ago
Blood in the Water Full remix if you haven't heard it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hAUPyKX_-58
This mix has more Bucket and features Tupac. 
#169 Re: Guns N' Roses » Axl and Bipolarity » 444 weeks ago
In other words, I can't imagine growing up in Indiana did much for his own self-esteem and self-image. There he was constantly told that he was the problem. He goes to Hollywood and all the things that Indiana was trying to repress were the things that people were most interested in. To me, that alone would be quit the mind-fuck over the years.
Quite. There was this article, which looked back at Axl's years in Lafayette as the ne'er-do-well Bill Bailey and his transformation into a rock star. Gleaned out the good bits in this thread.
Have said it before, Axl (in the past, anyway) is quick to attack you, if he feels you suddenly pop up to threaten his personal space or other people he cares about. And he gets angered real hard real quick, when he does. This was, for a long time, a real issue for him. He gave no quarter, no benefit of doubt. He thought you've slighted him, and that was enough.
Of course, when the anger management issue is mixed with paranoia, you get a difficult person when you fail to communicate. A person like that may often assume, by default, that people around him try to cause him problems. This means he's set to get angry at anyone, any time, on anything. This person happens to own and control GNR assets, making him rich and influential - and everybody who wants to deal with Guns needs to tolerate his behavior.
As a layman, I'd say a lot of his behavior has to do with his sense of security and peace. In the past, he's often flown into a show at the last minute. Nerves. Then he does his personal warm-up, which includes psyching up. Axl, at best, is possessed on stage. I very much believe he has a process at the venue to achieve this. Because, again, he's often been too anxious to show up on time, yet by the time he actually does reach the stage, he's turned into a man on fire.
Axl the Rockstar seemingly has (had) the same fundamental issue as Axl the person. Sensitive as a flower, his temper resting on a razor's edge. As others said above, he didn't have the best of childhood homes, and he was likely bullied a lot by older kids, as he was easy to provoke. When he hit his teens, the Lafayette cops soon knew who he was, and he'd often get singled out as a prime suspect (scapegoat) for anything.
That sort of thing is really a two-way negative relationship. Authority figures and Axl were at odds, because both learned to expect the worst from the other. The Rockstar life blew his ego to the stratosphere and surrounded him with sycophants, who told him what he wanted to hear instead of what he needed. After the UYI tour wrapped, that mobile support network was gone and he came home to an empty mansion to have a whole bunch of people, including ex-spouses, suing him.
Therefore, I'd say he's experienced those negative cycles on an ever-increasing scale. He retreated from the public eye simply because it all got too much for him. Does all this make him bipolar? Nah, but he would've definitely needed more stability. Many people have said it's too bad he's yet to have a family (for all we know), as Axl really seems to enjoy having kids around, particularly on Halloween. Those parties are probably what Bill Bailey dreamed about, but was never invited.
#170 Dust N' Bones & Cyborg Slunks » NIN (w/ Robin) in Twin Peaks » 444 weeks ago
- apex-twin
- Replies: 4
NIN are featured in episode 8 of Twin Peaks: The Return, performing 'She's Gone' in the Roadhouse, an iconic location in the series. Robin's still there, which should say something. Trent's been able to handpick his players for a long time, but he's always poached Robin back from Camp Axl whenever possible.
Robin's vagabond ways have caused much talk, in both fanbases. But if you look at Robin's point of view, it's also quite natural. He was hired by Trent on a fluke encounter to tour The Downward Spiral. After the tour, the band members settled into New Orleans, but Robin eventually needed a change of pace from the Rock Star life. He remained friends with Trent and joined the circus as a guitar player. Little did he know, one night in California, Matt and Axl attended the show.
Robin had made a smooth transition into lead guitar in Guns. He replaced Cirque de Soleil with an even bigger circus. He was given a two-year contract and he was surrounded by familiar faces from his NIN days. A dream job for him, essentially. He got to be there throughout 1998, when most of the original album was written and recorded.
For the next year or so, Axl kept to himself, writing the lyrics and recording his bits in utmost privacy. Robin was unaware of this. His contract was about to end when Trent called him up to tour Fragile. Fellow live members, Danny Lohner and Charlie Clouser, had contributed to the double album, as Trent, an advocate of computing like Axl, had decided on building a network of digital audio workstations in their New Orleans base. Robin missed out on that as he waited on Axl.
At this point in time, it's important to remember all those in the band and crew have described the album as 'done' instrumentally. Work had been completed early, which stands as a silent nod to Sean Beavan and his crew. People were literally waiting for their contracts to run out, so they could leave in good terms to escape the inactivity.
Robin was actually the first nu-Guns to run out of contract on Aug 1st, 1999. A month later, Billy Howerdel left. Early next year, Josh Freese, Sean Beavan and their audio engineer, Critter. They were moving on to new things, while Axl was holding the album up - while failing to communicate his plans for it. It was a solo album in the sense that one person had absolute power. Many people, including Robin, left disappointed but grateful.
Robin left in what he considered good terms. He always intended to come back to tour behind CD. Only Guns kept him in the dark on future plans, whereas Trent was quite detailed on what was on the table. For Robin, it was natural progression to return to NIN. Axl bemoaned the loss of his Randy Rhodes, enlisting Brian May and Buckethead to fill the void. The tail-end of the Beavan crew's tenure was to re-do guitars because Robin left.
After the Fragility tour, Robin was out of work and touched base with Guns. Lucky timing. Axl had his comeback thought out as a facsimile of the UYI tour. Launch the new band at Rock in Rio 3, go on to a summer tour and drop the album on the road. Paul Tobias was a bit wary on the big stage. Axl tried to get Izzy to stand in for him. Robin showed up.
As in '97, Axl, again, had the opportunity to replace Paul with Robin. Just that, more is more. Axl got obsessed on the three guitar concept, as he felt it brought the music the best both leads had to offer. His management style had already left the band members disgruntled many times over, and the enforcement of three guitars would continue to vex interpersonal relations. By its nature, Guns is a two-guitar band.
Robin was given a good contract, again. Get back in and tour the album, finish what you started. Things were a bit different. New studio, new crew. New drummer and a new guitarist. Who wears masks wherever he goes and talks through a puppet. As a guitarist, he was insane, though. Unlike anyone Robin had ever played with. Axl had finally contracted someone as unreachable and talented as himself.
The RIR3 rehearsals were an old hat. Turn your clock around and get in the Sony lot around midnight. At 2AM, Axl would call in and say he might show up. Robin and the other legacy members would recall the many times they heard that one at Rumbo. Axl was about a 40-minute drive away and would show after 1,5 hours, if at all. Facing the music freaked him out and he needed to work himself up for it. He failed often.
On the final night, Axl needed to see the show after blowing off every other opportunity. Axl one-upped it. In the middle of that night, he figured he might as well see the entire stage show, with pyros et al. The crew worked insane, getting fire marshals in et al. Axl got in and watched the entire show as an instrumental from a couch. He then walked out and allowed a dead-tired crew to wrap it up.
A big reason why Axl was acting so flustered could've been Bob Ezrin's quip on three good CD songs. Axl knew his comeback was deflated for the time being. He was not doing the summer tour without an album. The show was the only thing going for him at that point. He was about to face criticism, but was unable to deliver an album as planned.
This breakdown and the subsequent Groundhog Day of recording was not what Robin signed up for, as the sole person in the CD era to come back for more. And yet, with all the chicken coops and dog poo, the Roy Thomas Baker album was getting there. Around the '02 tour, he might've accepted a two-year extension. All was good, album looming ahead. Just that the same thing happened all over again. Axl saw his shadow and got spooked.
The next year, Buckethead got fed up. He rode to the end of his contract (2+2y, '99-'03) and left. He was bullied to no end by Axl's lawyers, who'd had the been worked up by the boss himself, fuming at them to get a response out of Bucket. Eyewitnesses have said Axl can be a pretty scary guy when properly pissed. If he's one step away from breaking things, you're in for it. You'd get the corn, as the band would say, giggling at his hair style.
RIR4 was still within Robin's contract. It never happened and the band had been marooned from Village Studios, anyway. They'd done away with a third round of recording on the same material, without an album. It was a two-guitar lineup as they left it. Then, in the spring of '06, Axl was getting ready to release the album and offered sizable retainers to get the band back together.
What Axl might've been mum about was that he pined for Buckethead and wanted someone to play his parts. Bucket blew them off and Guns scattered to a whirlwind of 'tryouts', going through new guitar players to suss out one Axl would like. This was not what Robin and the others had signed up for. The new unknown was designated for a cold shoulder, because the boss was indisposed. They ended up with a player Axl's cronies blew off two years earlier.
In April '08, Robin was at the same crossroads as he'd been nine years earlier. Again, Trent came up to him at the opportune time. This was quite a turnaround from the snide remarks by Trent as he was prepping to tour With Teeth in early 2005, sans Robin. While that album had been more of a solo effort, it's certainly plausible that Robin chose to keep Guns as his priority and this scorned Trent at the time. While discussing Robin, the Guns fans generally overlook the With Teeth situation.
Robin was asked, want to do an album and tour it? This was The Slip, reuniting Robin with Josh Freese. It must've been fun for them to finally play live together. Hindsight says Robin made the right choice to go back to NIN when he did. Even with CD out, there was nothing left but diminishing returns before a reunion with Slash. Robin played it the way he wanted and remains a highly regarded employee by both Axl and Trent.
He would have a plethora of stories to tell if he would.

