-D- wrote:

Ali wrote:

It is a faulty premise and it is not based on common sense.  Sorry, but if someone doesn't look at the Rio show and assume it will be representative of the rest of the tour, it only means that they aren't jumping to the same conclusion others are.  I don't HAVE TO sit here and say because of one bad show I won't go to a US show.  That's because I won't jump to conclusions based off one data point as opposed to a larger sample size.  That's personal choice and completely valid.

If I buy tickets to see the Golden State Warriors simply because I like the idea of seeing NBA basketball live and find it entertaining, even though the team isn't very competitive, that's completely valid and doesn't make me an enabler.  It just makes me someone that enjoys NBA games as a means of having a good night out.

You don't see it apparently, but the fundamental problem with this "enabler" concept is that the opinion that things are bad, wrong or completely unacceptable is the correct and only opinion.  That just isn't the case, or it wouldn't be a matter of opinion.

Ali

no Bono was dead on.

If u continuously buy Golden St warrior season tickets and they go 20-62 every season.. consistently let their best players go to other teams and seem to have no desire to spend money or win, yes u are enabling the franchise by keeping them in business and giving them bigger profits without them having to put that money back into the team.

If u go as a one off to see what its all about.. u would be a casual fan and that isn't what we are talking about here.

of course GNR aren't the only band this pertains to. Hell Bon Jovi haven't tried to write a decent album in about 12 years.. but cause we keep buying all the shit ones.. they have no reason to change. If they make a shit album and we don't buy it.. maybe they will see that they gotta put a little more effort into it.

No, still not dead on.  You're not seeing/reading/getting the whole gist of what I said.  You completely missed/misunderstood/ignored the part about choosing to not jump to conclusions based on one show and the part about not agreeing that things are "bad" with GN'R.  Sports franchises are different because there are objective criteria for the success of a sports franchise.  The quality of music and/or live performances by an artist are entirely subjective.  That is the thing, one of them at least, that you and Bono just are not getting.  I don't HAVE TO agree with your opinion of the state of GN'R.  You aren't right and I am not wrong.

Ali

Bono wrote:

Ali wrote:

This whole being an "enabler" thing is based on a faulty premise.  It's assuming that A) others have to share the same opinion as you and/or B) others have to be willing to draw the same conclusion as to how the larger group of shows will turn out even if it is agreed upon that one performance was subpar.  Having a differing opinion is just simply having a differing opinion.

Ali

No it isn't based on a  faulty premise. It's no different than a shitty sports franchise selling out every game. They continue to put the same product on the ice or on the field with no serious attempts to improve yet fans still buy tickets every game and sell out, in essence enabling a  franchise to spend less and remain mediocre.  Sure every once in a whiel the team puts in a thrilling performance or goes on a  run that gives fans hope but in typical fashion they crash and burn when it matters most and then the whole process of "rebuilding" starts all over but the organization doesn't have to worry about moving forward cause the homes games are still sold out.

Honestly Ali  if people would stop buying tickets to the "Guns N' Roses" maybe Axl would actually move forward and do soemthnig but it's people who continue to buy tickets to this that are enabling him to keep the status quo. Which is no new albums, no new setlist(one song doesn't count), no new anything. Just the same old, same old.

I'm as guilty as anyone as I've bought tickets to the 2002, 2006 & 2010 tours.  But the premise that fans are enabling this is not in the least bit faulty. It's pretty accurate.

It's all very common sense.

It is a faulty premise and it is not based on common sense.  Sorry, but if someone doesn't look at the Rio show and assume it will be representative of the rest of the tour, it only means that they aren't jumping to the same conclusion others are.  I don't HAVE TO sit here and say because of one bad show I won't go to a US show.  That's because I won't jump to conclusions based off one data point as opposed to a larger sample size.  That's personal choice and completely valid.

If I buy tickets to see the Golden State Warriors simply because I like the idea of seeing NBA basketball live and find it entertaining, even though the team isn't very competitive, that's completely valid and doesn't make me an enabler.  It just makes me someone that enjoys NBA games as a means of having a good night out.

You don't see it apparently, but the fundamental problem with this "enabler" concept is that the opinion that things are bad, wrong or completely unacceptable is the correct and only opinion.  That just isn't the case, or it wouldn't be a matter of opinion.

Ali

Ali wrote:

russtcb wrote:

Oh I'm happy with my Chicago tickets and I'll be happy with my Detroit ones. My initial concern was that the tour happen at all based on Axl's whole attitude at RiR

Understood, but to suggest there is something wrong with buying tickets despite what, as of now, stands as a single bad show, is absurd to me.

Ali

I saw someone on mygnr started a thread to basically "pat themselves on the back" for having not bought tickets prior to Rock In Rio and how there's no chance they'll buy tickets now.

The way I look at that is "Yippie for you!". If you start a thread like that, you probably never had any intention on buying tickets, supporting the band and were probably hoping for the worst anyways.

My thing is this; I'm calling a spade a spade. RiR (IMO) was a bad show for Axl. Not because of his weight, not because of his voice, not because of the rain, not because SoaD ran over, not because he flugged some lyrics, simply because his attitude was terrible.

Having lived through A LOT of GN'R mishaps in the past 20 or so years as all of us have, I've seen his attitude get in the way more than anything. So I honestly became completely worried that his attitude at RiR meant that there might be some rough times ahead. Up to and including just plain cancelling the US Tour.

In any case, I'm still very happy I bought Chicago tickets, I'm looking forward to buying Detroit tickets and I sure as hell hope I get the chance to see both shows!