Return to Geffen

"One thing that may bear in the equation [of CD's release] is the recent changes with Geffen Records. Last week MCA Records was effectively folded and most of the roster was moved over to Geffen.

Word on the street is Geffen will be reorganized and in effect become once again a full self-standing record company (over the past few years Geffen was ran as part of Geffen / Interscope / A&M).

What that means is there will be more muscle behind a new GNR release when the time comes." (AntiMusic, 06/17/03)

This was the second time the album would appear in the Geffen books.

"What really happened was the record company stood back and left Axl to his own devices. Axl had all these ideas, and he needed somebody to help interpret what he wanted. He had to basically produce himself, and that’s not what he went into this wanting to do. There are a lot of reasons the album took so long to make, but I think the record company really dropped the ball on this one." (Tommy, Bass Player, 04/09)

"Geffen begs to differ; one source told me they were highly supportive until the breaking point in 2004, after Rose had begun to ignore them altogether and after the album was already way over budget." (AddictiveThoughts, 07/12/09)

Axl's relationship with the resurrected Geffen appeared more sour than the one with Interscope, as they remained cordial towards each other just little over six months.

"It is hoped that the merger of Geffen and MCA's staff will bring Geffen back to its former glory. [...] If the plan, which is still being negotiated, comes to fruition, it is expected that the majority of MCA's staff will be brought under Geffen, thus transforming Geffen into a full-service label again, sources said. Jordan Schur, president of Geffen Records, is negotiating a new contract to helm the new Geffen." (Billboard, 05/20/03)

Schur had been the head of the label throughout the drought years of Geffen, and was no doubt eager to capitalize on one of their biggest artists.

"In August 2003, [...] label executives announced their intention to release a Guns N' Roses greatest-hits CD for the holidays." (New York Times, 03/06/05)

"Rose was originally informed by letter dated August 6, 2003 that UMG intended to release the Guns N' Roses GHLP, and of the specific tracks to be included on that album and their sequence." (Greatest Hits lawsuit document, 2004)

Meet you guys in...

A Dust N' Bones listmember met Richard Fortus at Don Hill's in New York in mid-March.

"When asked about GN'R's plans, Richard said 'Yeah, we're starting up again in May.' To the question regarding the Chinese Democracy album and whether it will come out or not, he said 'Yeah, Axl is finishing it up now, doing vocals - overdubs. It's great.'" (Dust N' Bones, 03/20/03)

As Dizzy said in November 2002, the album supposedly had 2-4 months of work left in it. Starting out in May therefore seems to hint the album was scheduled to be completed at that point. Retailers seemed support that notion, as on 15/02/03, CDNow customer services responded to inquiries that the provisional release for CD was currently on 07/01/03.

Also, soundtrack rumors were abound (again).

"It's looking likely that [Arnold Schwarzenegger] will have a song from the long time coming G'n'R 'Chinese Democracy' album included on the soundtrack for Terminator 3. [...] Terminator 3 : The Rise of the Machines will be released on July 2, 2003." (Undercover, 01/07/03)

As with End of Days, the track would've likely been tied into the films ad campaign, allowing an album release a fair share of additional publicity.

In April, Fortus implied that dates had slid in the past month.

"[The new GNR tour is] probably not going to start till early Fall when the record is released." (Fortus, Anderson Guitars, 04/20/03)

Tommy'd spent the spring recording a solo album, and by the time he got around to tour, the get-together phase was pushed back - again.

"On break from Guns N' Roses until September, [...] Stinson is currently putting the finishing touches on 16 new songs for an upcoming solo record. Primarily recorded over two months in a studio owned by friend Charles Thompson (aka Frank Black), [...] the untitled album is currently being shopped to labels." (Press release, 06/27/03)

'Pretty mellow crowd'

NYC, 3AM.

The following show was to take place on 12/06/02 in Philadelphia. The only reported sighting of Axl on that day occured in the early hours.

"Axl Rose ... arrived [at the NYC nightclub Spa] at about 3AM, but he was wearing a fur coat, and the club has a policy against fur. One of the women in Axl's entourage checked her fur at a nearby parking garage, but angry Axl stalked off." (The New York Post, 12/08/02)

Three hours later, Axl had apparently found himself unable to perform that night.

"I did cancel the first [Philadelphia] show at [6AM]. But my manager (Doug Goldstein) told me he canceled it, then didn't. And ClearChannel wanted us to fuck up, because they wanted to end the tour, because they had some shit going down in Florida, or something." (Axl, 02/27/12)

GNR had tour dates lined up in Florida for the following weekend, with Tampa (Dec 13th) and West Palm Beach (Dec 14th).

Philly, 8PM.

The venue people were being brought up to speed 14 hours later.

"According to Philadelphia news stations, the opening act at the First Union Center date performed for two hours before the show was called off. [...] 'We were informed around 8 p.m. or so that Axl Rose was still in Manhattan and a helicopter was being sent to get him,' explains Peter Luukko, president of Comcast-Spectacor Ventures and chairman of Global Spectrum, management company for the First Union Center." (Billboard, 12/21/02)

"With a helicopter waiting on the rooftop of his hotel to take him on a brief 40-minute flight to Philadelphia for that night's show at the First Union Center, a dispirited Rose refused to budge." (Blender, 02/10/03)

"I went to the Guns N' Roses show tonight at the First Union Center in Philly, it was sold out and everything. Well, I got there at around 8:30 and Mix Master Mike was still on stage. He kept saying how Guns N' Roses would be on in a minute, yet never left the stage for another 30-45 minutes. Everyone started kidding around saying that Axl wouldn't show up again. Well, Mix Master Mike ended at around 9:15-9:30." (Blabbermouth, 12/07/02)

"Things went awry shortly after the opening act, Mix Master Mike, ended its set about 9:45. Witnesses said about a half-hour later, fans began to realize something was amiss when stagehands began packing up their equipment and leaving." (Philly.com, 12/07/02)

"At 10, no sign of the show starting. Word was spreading that Axl hadn't arrived yet. Then we found out that the First Union Center had put a stop on all beer sales ... kind of odd for them to do so before the main act went on. So it got to be 10:30, and still no band - people were starting to see what was coming. In between every song that was being played, the booing got louder and louder, and chants of 'asshole' began that were really loud. At that point, you knew Guns N' Roses wouldn't be playing." (Blabbermouth, 12/07/02)

Philly, 10.45PM.

After nearly three hours of hassle to get Axl to the venue, the matter was let go. Apparently, the band been oblivious to the subject and had been waiting to go on for at least a few hours.

"Promoter Clear Channel and venue managers Comcast-Spectator set a firm deadline of 10:45pm for Rose to say whether or not he would show up to play. Rose's longtime manager, Doug Goldstein, reached at Rose's New York hotel room, glumly reported, 'He's not coming.'" (Blender, 02/10/03)

"Basically we were in touch with band management as to what the progress was, and at 10:45 we were informed [Rose] wasn't coming." (Billboard, 12/21/02)

"Matt Cord, a DJ for Philly modern-rock station Y-100 and a longtime friend of bassist Tommy Stinson, says the band members [...] minus Rose, were in Philadelphia Friday night and ready to play. Then the show's local promoter informed them that their singer was feeling ill and wouldn't be joining them." (ew.com, 12/13/02)

"It was not Axl's fault. He will tell you later. He was late to the concert and it got canceled by the promotion people who were scared that there would be another riot. It was silly because there was a riot anyway." (Fernando Lebeis, O Globo, 07/09/03)

"What health problem Axl was suffering from is not known. But the Philadelphia Inquirer reported that a source from the First Union Center told them that “speculation was that Rose had stayed in his New York hotel room to watch a basketball game."(AntiMusic, 12/06/02)

"I got really sick, and it had nothing to do with fur coats and basketball games." (Axl, 02/27/12)

Philly, 11.15PM.

By all accounts, the ensuing riot was significantly milder than the one experienced in Vancouver. A tour infamously bookended by last-minute cancelations started with a bang and ended with a whimper.

"Venue representatives boosted security to avoid a repeat of the riot that occurred when GN'R failed to turn up for their opening-night show in Vancouver on November 7." (Blender, 02/10/03)

"'At that point a decision was made to make an announcement at 11:15, giving us a half-hour to get security in place and police backup from the city of Philadelphia,' Luukko says."  (Billboard, 12/21/02)

"Finally, when people saw the soundboard guys cover up their equipment, all hell broke loose. People started ripping binoculars off the seats and throwing them down on the floor, people were chucking their drinks and food at security around the stage as they took the equipment away, people rushed the stage, a fight broke out, folding chairs were turned into launching pads." (Blabbermouth, 12/07/02)

"At 11:15, the 15,000 strong audience was told the show was not going to happen 'due to illness in the band.' Fans were asked not to take their anger out on the staff or the facility. Some of them threw chairs and attacked the lighting, sound, and video crews, but no arrests or injuries were reported."  (Blender, 02/10/03)

"An announcement FINALLY came on at around 11:15 saying that the show had been cancelled due to 'health reasons' and that tickets were valid whenever the show would be rescheduled." (Blabbermouth, 12/07/02)

"'It's very simple. We were informed Axl was ill and wasn't going to appear in the building, and we made an announcement,' said Peter Luukko, president of Comcast Spectacor Ventures, which owns and operates the center." (Philly.com, 12/07/02)

"That really set people off, and chairs started flying at the soundboard and up on stage. It was not a pretty sight. However, a good amount of people did leave and outside seemed to be quite calm in comparison to what was happening inside.

There was a large police presence outside, but thankfully they were not instigating anything with angry fans. Who knows what happened, but I can tell you while I'm shocked, I'm certainly not surprised. I also think Philadelphia fans handled the situation quite well considering the circumstances and the past history with riots." (Blabbermouth, 12/07/02)

"We did have some chairs thrown and some damage in the building, but all in all, considering the difficulty of the situation, we were able to get people out with no major injuries." (Billboard, 12/21/02)

Philly, a decade later.

"I want to apologize for my part [in the no-show]. I'm not saying I'm innocent." (Axl, 02/27/12)

Breakdown

On November 7th, after over two months of delays, the North American tour was scheduled to start in Vancouver, BC.

"Thursday was supposed to be a very big night for Guns N' Roses fans: the long-awaited launch of the group's first U.S. tour in nine years." (MTV, 11/08/02)

"The band rehearsed Wednesday in GM Place without Rose, who rarely rehearses with his band." (Canoe, 11/08/02)

"According to Guns' management, [Axl's] flight's departure from L.A. had been delayed by mechanical troubles. He had been scheduled to take the stage with Guns N' Roses at 9:30." (MTV, 11/08/02)

"The trouble began when the venue doors didn't open as scheduled at 6:30 p.m. [...] Ticket sales wickets were shut down." (Canoe, 11/08/02)

"The manager of the building said that the doors wouldn't open until he had confirmation that we were wheels up, that the plane was in the air." (Axl, KISW Seattle, 11/08/02)

Flight time between LAX and YVR is approximately 2hrs 40mins. Additionally, the distace between YVR and GM Place is around 7 miles, equaling to about 20-30mins driving. Had Axl left LAX at 6.30pm, he'd arrived at YVR at around 9.10pm, while arriving to GM Place, at the earliest, between 9.30pm-10pm.

"The official announcement [on the show having been cancelled] came over the loudspeakers at 7:40 p.m." (Canoe, 11/08/02)

"I was in the air. I was in a plane on the way to the show. [...] As soon as [the building manager] had that confirmation, he cancelled the show without telling anybody. [...] Before [the rioting] started, [the manager] had police at the airport, trying to find out what was going on with me." (Axl, KISW Seattle, 11/08/02)

Axl left LAX in between 6.30-7.40pm. Assuming he left at 7.30pm, his estimated time of arrival to YVR would've been at 10.10pm, with an arrival to GM Place at around 10.30-11pm. Give or take perhaps 30 minutes of preshow preparations at the venue, the show might've started at around 11-11.30pm.

"Though common sense says it would have been smart to be in Vancouver early in the day, like the rest of the band, for the start of the tour, Rose's manager, Merck Mercuriadis, said backstage Friday that Rose prefers to arrive at the arena just before show time. In this case, Rose's itinerary would have put him at the GM Place in time to go on at 10 p.m., as scheduled, but he was delayed in getting to the airport by traffic, the manager said. He added that the plane would have been in Vancouver in time for Rose to go on by 11 p.m., and that he tried to convince arena officials to let the show start late, with Rose covering overtime costs." (LA Times, 11/09/02)

"The building manager just decided, and in our opinion, prematurely, that the show was just cancelled. And he didn't discuss it with anyone. He just announced it over the P.A, we found out, my guys found out over the Public Address system." (Axl, KISW Seattle, 11/08/02)

"The members of Guns N' Roses were [...] bummed about the show's cancellation. Bassist Tommy Stinson, loitering by a backstage buffet table, said, 'Axl is gonna be pissed.'" (MTV, 11/08/02)

"I didn't even know what the hell was going on. Tommy and Dizzy were doing an interview backstage with Kurt Loder from MTV, and they heard the announcement that the show was canceled coming over the PA system in the arena. No one could believe it. And it was Robin's birthday, too. It was such a drag." (Richard, Times Union, 11/21/02)

"[At, or around, 8pm,] within 15 minutes of the cancellation announcement, the crowd - estimated at 9,000 - began rioting. Ticket sales windows at GM Place were smashed and when police were called in to quell the mob, rocks were thrown at them." (Pollstar, 11/08/02)

"[At, or around, 8.20pm,] after about 20 minutes of all this, a phalanx of cops waded in with attack dogs, and things got really ugly. Those fans who escaped the police onslaught with nothing more than a faceful of pepper spray might be said to have been the lucky ones. Wielding their riot batons with seeming abandon, the cops walloped legs, arms, heads, whatever available extremity presented itself. They ganged up to pummel people even after they'd fallen to the ground. One young man was smashed in the face and had his teeth knocked out ... he stumbled away in a daze, holding them in his hands, with blood pouring from his mouth." (MTV, 11/08/02)

"At 9 p.m., a dejected looking posse that included a masked Buckethead and other band members was ushered out of the building." (CDNow, 11/09/02)

"'We could have easily played that show,' Stinson said of the concert, pulled by the producer. 'We got the short end of the stick on it.'" (Tommy, Quad City Times, 11/17/02)

Like Axl, the tour was still up in the air.