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#5051 Re: The Garden » Old WWF question... » 860 weeks ago
Shawn Michaels getting stripped of IC title in 1993.
Well...the storyline reason from this strip was because he refused to defend the title anymore, and according to WWF rules, you must defend the title once every 30 days. I had never heard that rule before or since.
The REAL reason he got stripped. Shawn had tested positive for steriods in the late summer/fall of 1993. It is something to this day he refutes. In fact, he says that he was kind of chubby at the time. If you look back, he kind of was...anyway, he was suspended for a couple of months for this offense. Someone said the traces of steroids found in the drug test were quite small and clearly were not part of any "cycle." Forgive me if I'm not using the correct terminology.
#5052 Re: The Garden » Old WWF question... » 860 weeks ago
Thanks for the clarification on the Crush- Savage feud.
Macho Man actually had some excellent matches with Rick Martel after wrestlemania
I don't remember these matches. To be honest the only match involving Martel that I remember was that great match he had with Razor Ramon for the IC title on RAW. Shawn Michaels had gotten stripped of the title for some reason and they held a tournament for the vacant title. Ramon and Martel were the final two and faced off on RAW. Martel had Ramon in his finisher the Boston Crab and it looked like Razor was about to give up, but he fought out of it and hit the Razor's edge for the win. I remember thinking wow they gave away this match on free tv. But that happened in early 1993 and the Savage-Martel feud happened later.
And I dont think we will see The Rock back in the WWE anytime soon. He has pretty much turned his back on the place that helped him make millions in shitty movies.
What does everyone think about this development in pro wrestling? I find it kind of annoying actually. Most of these movies stink and we (the viewing public) gets this stuff shoved down our throat (the promos etc.).
It makes perfect sense to me, to be quite honest. To be a professional wrestler these days requires a lot. JR has mentioned that you are on the road for something like 300 days/year...wrestling sometimes twice a day.
It is a lot easier to make shitty movies for a living. Especially when you consider the fact that he probably gets paid more than he got paid to be a wreslter.There is really no reason to come back when you think about these things.
#5053 Re: The Garden » Old WWF question... » 860 weeks ago
Seeing that the Rumble is going to be held in Detroit for the first time in a few short weeks, I'm going to try really hard to make it.
I think you should go since it's the only one of the big PPV that you haven't attended. I find the Royal Rumble the most entertaining of all the big PPV.
Regarding another Austin match, if they can't get Hogan would Jericho be a logical second choice? He's red hot as a heel, cuts insane promos and could probably guide Austin towards a good match. Currently, Jericho is not involved in any specific program. I'm discounting both HBK and Undertaker since those two are slated to face each other at WM (at least according to rumors). There's no one else on the roster worth who would fit the specific criteria for Austin's final match anyway.
Savage wanted to stay an active wrestler so he got pissed with being a Commentator all the time. I remember one of his last matches was against Crush at WMX, I loved that.
I forget how this feud started--didn't this orignially involve Doink the evil clown beating up on Crush. Then Savage saved Crush from another beating and eventually Crush turned on Savage, claiming he was a bad friend. I think he ended up injuring Savage's throat after press slamming him on a guard rail.
And yes the match at WM X was excellent.
I'll help ya out with this one.
It was actually Yokozuna who originally caused the rift...somehow...as it doesn't make complete sense by the story that unfolded from late '93 to WMX.
Crush got a shot at Yokozuna...he was going to be the first guy to knock Yoko down...none the less, the beat him. Crush was bragging about how he was going to knock Yoko down (which he never did) and not even caring about winning the match. Well Crush got demonlished by Yoko and took like a half dozen bonzai drops. Macho Man got up from the announcers booth after about five or six and scrapped Crush off the met and pull him out before another could be delivered.
Crush was out for awhile and when he came back...he blamed Macho Man for nearly costing him his career...after they seemed to smooth things over, Crush hits him and then Yoko and Fugi and Cornette come down and all take turns mocking and beating on Savage.
Crush was now part of the stable and Macho Man had someone to fight for a change.
Macho Man actually had some excellent matches with Rick Martel after wrestlemania but they were usually on that friday night or saturday night wrestling program...can't remember the name.
Anyway...there is the story behind all that.
#5054 Re: The Garden » Old WWF question... » 860 weeks ago
Damn good point Private. That's the thing. Hogan is such a slouch and piss poor wrestler at this point in his career, that he's got to job imo, and let the other opponent do the heavy lifting.
I was never a big fan of the Hogan/Rock & Hogan/HBK matches, because to me, it seemed like The Rock & HBK did all the freakin' work, making Hogan look good.
Austin & The Rock had SO many AMAZING matches. To this day, my favorite match of EITHER of them, is Backlash '99. Austin also had some amazing matches with HHH and HBK and Taker.
Austin has not over-exposed himself like Hogan. Because of Austin's limited ability due to injuries, Austin has rested himself, and refused to sign off on ANY match that isn't "glorious" in nature. It has to be the biggest ticket of all time. And at this point, I think for Vince, it'd be for more marketable to market ("STONE COLD RETURNS FOR ONE FINAL MATCH!") than it would be ("HOGAN vs. AUSTIN: BATTLE OF THE TITANS"). People just don't give a shit anymore about Hogan, and from my knowledge, as far as the 'legends' go, Stone Cold still sells more merch than Hogan. Obviously the appeal is still there for Austin, unlike Hogan, who's EVERYWHERE. Hogan Knows Best, Brooke Knows Best, In Court, American Gladiators, Celebrity Wrestling, etc.
Austin pretty much sits at the house, drinks beer, and lives off his checks from Vince. Which, unless he's been doing 'ghost' matches in the ring for the last several years, I highly doubt Austin is currently in wrestling condition.
Oh, and Slashfro, you're right. Austin's final match was in 2002. In the last seven years, other than a few stunners and some mock punches, he's done nothing in the ring.
Hogan is desperate for money. IF Vince is interested in a Hogan/Austin, now is the time to pull the trigger, when Hogan is vunerable and desperate... BUT... when Hogan ain't happy - he dogs it. He's lazy, and doesn't work. So do you REALLY want a desperate Hogan?
I'd love to see Austin in the ring again, but I just think i'd like to see a Austin/Rock match again... maybe involve the McMahon's for old time's sake. Austin/DX would be cool, as would Austin/Taker... ultimate submission or something like that. There's plenty of other things i'd rather see than Hogan/Austin.
I dunno Axlin...gettin' rid of some old baggage by the name of Linda Hogan would make me happy, at any cost...lol
Now Hogan is free to date Brooke's 19 yo friends.
Ha...no, seriously...I don't know exactly what I would expect in a match between these two ...I honestly can say that I wouldn't mind seeing it. I accepted Hogan's lack of and declining wrestling ability for many years now. I'll tell you what though...if I have to see another Cena main event at wrestlemania this year, I will be unhappy!
#5055 Re: Guns N' Roses » Chinese Democracy Elimination Round 5 » 860 weeks ago
I picked This I love...what the hell...people don't like Prostitute around here?
#5056 Re: The Garden » Old WWF question... » 860 weeks ago
The HBK/Hogan match was classic. Not because of it's goodness just because HBK showed he still can be a prick and over sold Hogan like there was no tomorrow. Just funny shit really. Hogan won't job to Austin. When it comes down to it he'll change his mind. But with Hogans personal problem of Linda being a money grabbing whore I could see him jobbing multiple times if he really needs the money.
HBk was a prick...did you see the oversells in that match...it was ridicuolous and blatent...and also hilarious
#5057 Re: The Garden » Old WWF question... » 860 weeks ago
What I never understood about Hogan's reluctance to job was the fact he jobbed to the Ultimate Warrior at Wrestlemania VI and what wound up being the final peak of Hulkamania. It never made much sense to do it then, then refuse to do it later in his career when his invincibility had loooooong worn off.
McMahon must have paid him massive amounts of money to do that, and if money is what would convince Hogan to lose, McMahon should have handed him blank checks at least twice during Hogan's 84-88 title reign. He had way too much competition during that time frame to never lose. The original Hulkamania reign went stale awfully quick, but they were able to get away with it because Hogan was a huge icon at the time and millions of kids did not want to see him lose.
Had I been a booker, I would have had Hogan lose the belt to Bundy at Wrestlemania II, and win it back quickly on an episode of Saturday Night's Main Event. I also hated the fact that WWF would never allow any face vs face matches back then. It caused them to squander what would have been a match for the ages between Hogan and Steamboat in the aftermath of Wrestlemania III. Both were huge stars at the time and Steamboat was awfully close to Hogan's status popularity wise. They could have easily set up a scenario where Steamboat walks up to Hogan during an interview segment demanding a shot at the title, and as IC champion(and number one contender), he was entitled to it. They wouldn't have needed to make Steamboat a heel to make this work. Of course Steamboat screwed the pooch by demanding time off because his wife had just had a baby, this pissed Mcmahon off, and he forced Steamboat to job to Honkeytonk Man and made Steamboat irrelevant and let him go to WCW. Steamboat of course picked up where he had left off in WWF and had a feud with Flair which led to two of the greatest wrestling matches in history.
I like your take on the face vs face matches. It definately was not allowed...however, the marketing of the WWF at that time made it necessary. They didn't want the fans to have to decide and be split...and I understand that when your target audience is 8-16 year olds.
I do beg to differ with you as far as Hogan's first title reign. First of all, the wrestling boom occurred because the bulk of wrestling fans (all be it, youngsters) made it happen. Perhaps if Hogan lost the title, even for a day at that time, the entire bottom would have fallen out. In order for wrestling to break out at that time, that's what needed to happen. I sort of akin it to the Cena thing of the past few years. He is the favorite of the fringe fans...he's what keeps turning a giant profit...why?...because he brings in the fringe fans.
They always have the "smart" or "loyal" wrestling fan almost regardless of the decisions they make. The girls and little kids in 2009 love Cena and only come back to pay if he wins.
One great thing that occurred was because Hogan was hogging the WWF title in the 80s and early 90s was the IC title talent. Never again will you see the likes of that much talent vying for the IC title.
#5058 Re: The Garden » Old WWF question... » 860 weeks ago
A couple things to consider...I have read before...and if pressed I could find the sources...saying that Royal Rumble '93 was being set up as a Warrior vs Bret Hart match (not sure if it was for the title)...so there is one thing that was changed by the Hogan refusing the job or work with Flair.
Also...because Hogan and Flair refused to work together...it took Macho Man out his BLOOD fued with Jake Roberts. This feud did not end as planned...it was supposed to go all the way to Wrestlemania and end in a massive fight that you would only expect at Wrestlemania...
what happened instead...Macho Man begins feuding with Flair...and the Roberts feud disappears....Roberts is gone shortly there after...
Check out these awesome clips of that feud...excuse the bad qualityj...
#5059 Re: The Garden » Old WWF question... » 861 weeks ago
Thanks for the trip down memory lane! I might have to dust off some of the old tapes as well!
I think it was more or less a "youth movement". Wouldnt be much longer till Ted Turner was buying up alot of the established talent in the WWF.
True...but the abruptness of it all is alarming, wouldn't you agree?
#5060 The Garden » Old WWF question... » 861 weeks ago
- mitchejw
- Replies: 124
I was going back through some of the old WWF pay per views, and it caused me to analyze (probably over-analyze) what was going on in the WWF from 1992 to 1993...
This may be getting too detailed for some of you, but I hope others may take some interest in the topic.
The roster turnover over the span incurred massive turnover...allow me to describe even further.
In September of 1992, The Macho Man was champion and he was feuding/befriending Warrior in a rather interesting angle that clearly put them in the front and center of the WWF at that point. Hulk Hogan was showing up for pay per views, not much else, but he was still around. There were guys like Repoman, Papa Shango, Skinner, Berserker. Wrestlemania that year saw Piper vs Hart for the Intercontinental title. The Big Boss Man was in the midst of a strong push through out 1992. Ric Flair spent considerable time in 1992 as champion, including a Royal Rumble win. Mr. Perfect was making a serious push toward main event status...the list goes on.
Why am I telling you all of this? What happens in the final months of 1992 and roughtly January of 1993 is a complete change of direction in the company and nearly complete turnover. Warrior was fired before the end of 1992. Macho man is reduced to broadcasting with the occasional match with no build up. Ric Flair is gone, Mr. Perfect is gone by mid-1993 Repoman, Papa Shango, Kamala, skinner, Berserker all gone. Hulk Hogan has two matches in 1993 and is pushed out the door. The Big Boss Man and Flair, both major players of 1992 are gone before the first month of 1993 ends.
What else does late 92, early 93 bring? Bret Hart's first title reign, hardly considered possible even 6 months before it occurred. Shawn Micheals comes from being an extreme low card wrestler to upper mid-card and the IC championship right around the time Bret Hart gets his title. Yokozuna goes from unknown in late 1992 to champion by march of 1993. A major push for Razor Ramon that brings him from no none to IC in an 8 month span. Lex Luger...again, the list goes on...
I only bring this to your attention because it struck me at how much things changed in such a short period of time. Being the wrestling dork that I am, I was shocked to see what I saw when I put this time period under the microscope. I was hoping some of you had some thoughts on the era.
