We are not that split.:ummm: Yes, the record company would have eventually made that money from GH at some point in the future either way. However, it was specifically released at that point in time because Axl would not turn over Chinese. They definitely were trying to cut their losses from the Chinese Debacle. They accomplished that. However, at what cost? They released an album against their artists wishes and created a clear rift between artist and label. One that obviously has not been mended. So, in the short term, the label won. In the long run, they may not.:peace:

Sic, we are definitely pissing in the wind...BUT, Merck's comment on this issue on 12-15-06, coupled with reading the document I posted, suggests I am right about no negotiations since 1998.

Merck...12-15-06
"The record company refused to conclude the renegotiation until we were ready to hand over the finished album and refused to prepare a marketing campaign or commission video treatments until they had it in their hands. This is still their position as of this week."

if something significant would have happened between May 98 and Dec 2003, the legal brief would have mentioned it because it would have been an alteration to the contract that they based their entire lawsuit on! Think about it..plus you really have no other factual comments to base anything on. I will take a legal document and the manager's comments (not to mention Axl's same comments the day before Merck's), over blind speculation and news articles such as the Times piece.

" Axl Rose agreed, among other things, to deliver that new studio LP (which was even then long overdue under the Recording Agreement) no later than March 1, 1999 and received a substantial advance from Geffen in return. Hence, although other individuals have joined Axl Rose in performing under the name 'Guns N' Roses' since 1998, Rose is the only principal in the band. Id.

B. Plaintiffs Were Notified Of The March 15 And March 23, 2004 Release Dates In January 2004

December 31, 2003 came and went without delivery of the studio LP, as had so many previous deadlines.  Accordingly, in January 2004, Geffen resumed its plans to release the GHLP. "

ps, and before anyone says, we have no evidence to suggest something didn't happen in regards to renegotiation between 2004 and 2006, think about it again. Geffen cuts off funding to CD, releases GH against the band's wishes, makes an ass load of money....why in holy hell would they discuss anything with Axl until they had a finished record in hand that THEY approved of? It would make no sense since Geffen was back in a position of power after  the GH release.....seriously, no changes have been made since 98...it just doesn't make since for Geffen to do that without an album.:peace:

6 to 1 half dozen to another....in the end, the Gnr brand and Axl Rose have made Geffen millions upon millions of dollars. Axl owes them nothing and I would imagine he looks at it that way. You have to take the good with the bad when dealing with someone like that. If they ever release Chinese, it will just be icing on the cake.:haha:

ps however, from Geffen's perspective, I don't think I would throw any more money at the project. Therein lies the problem I would imagine.

Here's the only evidence we have of GNR'S contract.....we also know that through all the restructuring of Geffen and changing ownership, that alot of the money from recording in the 90's was written off. In the end, Gnr owes them one album of original material...that is all we know

A. Background Facts Relevant To The Relationship Between UMG And Guns N' Roses

The relationship between Guns N' Roses and UMG's Geffen Records division dates back to 1986, when Geffen's corporate predecessor, The David Geffen Company, entered into a recording agreement with five individuals, Steven Adler, Izzy Stradlin, Michael 'Duff McKagan, Saul Hudson (p/k/a 'Slash') and W. Axl Rose, who were professionally known as 'Guns N' Roses.' Hoffman Decl. ¶ 2. In 1992, Geffen's corporate predecessor entered into a new recording agreement with Messrs. Hudson, McKagan and Rose dated September 1, 1992 (hereinafter the 'Recording Agreement'). Prior to the signing of the 1992 Recording Agreement, Adler and Stradlin had left the band (although they still retained a royalty interest in master recordings created under the original 1986 agreement during their tenure in the band.) Id.

Since 1992, the parties have executed various amendments to the Recording Agreement, including most notably, two amendments dated as of May 1, 1998. One of these amendments, see Froeling Decl. Ex. D, confirmed Slash's and Duff's departure from the band and their status as 'Leaving Members' under the 1992 Recording Agreement, thereby relieving them of charges against their royalty accounts for the enormous recording costs and other expenses being incurred by Axl Rose (the only 'Remaining Member'[FN1] of Guns N' Roses) in connection with the recording of the new Guns N' Roses studio album. Hoffman Decl. ¶ 3. Slash and Duff, like Stradlin and Adler before them, retained a royalty interest in masters created under the Recording Agreement prior to their departure from the band. Id In the other May 1, 1998 amendment, see Hoffman Decl. Ex. A, Axl Rose agreed, among other things, to deliver that new studio LP (which was even then long overdue under the Recording Agreement) no later than March 1, 1999 and received a substantial advance from Geffen in return. Hence, although other individuals have joined Axl Rose in performing under the name 'Guns N' Roses' since 1998, Rose is the only principal in the band. Id.

FN1. 'Leaving Member' and 'Remaining Member' are both defined terms as used in Paragraph 17.02 of the Recording Agreement.

B. Plaintiffs Were Notified Of The March 15 And March 23, 2004 Release Dates In January 2004

December 31, 2003 came and went without delivery of the studio LP, as had so many previous deadlines. Hoffman Decl. ¶ 6. Accordingly, in January 2004, Geffen resumed its plans to release the GHLP. At that time, Mr. Hoffman asked Ms. Lori Froeling to send another notice to Guns N' Roses pursuant to the Recording Agreement, informing Guns N' Roses that the GHLP would be released on March 23, 2004 in the United States and Canada, and on March 15, 2004 in other international territories. Ms. Froeling sent such a notice on January 22, 2004. The January 22 notice also indicated that the previously approved track listing and sequence had not changed. Hoffman Decl. ¶ 6; Froeling Decl. ¶ 6 & Ex. F.

At no time after January 22, 2004 did Geffen Records ever indicate to Guns N' Roses, or any of its representatives, that Geffen was not intent on releasing the Guns N' Roses GHLP on the respective March 15 and March 23, 2004 release dates mentioned above. Hoffman ¶ 7. The release dates were in fact confirmed in a subsequent letter to Plaintiff Rose dated February 2, 2004. Marenberg Decl. ¶ 3; Ex. B. Froeling Decl. ¶¶ 4, 5. Accordingly, Mr. Rose, the only 'Remaining Member' of Guns N' Roses (as that term is defined in Section 17.02 of the Recording Agreement) was advised no later than January 22, 2004 of the March 23 and March 15, 2004 release dates for the Guns N' Roses GHLP in the United States and Canada and other international territories, respectively. 14. ¶ 6.

In connection with the release of the Guns N' Roses GHLP, Geffen has already paid $1 million dollars in advances to Rose and the four former members of Guns N' Roses. Hoffman Decl. ¶ 8. Specifically, Rose has received an advance of $257,545 for the GHLP; Slash and Duff have received an advance of $568,565 for them to split; and Messrs. Stradlin and Adler, who are not plaintiffs in the present lawsuit (and whose interests could be adversely affected by the issuance of the relief requested by Rose, Slash and Duff), have received advances of $ 136,228 and $37,662, respectively. Notably, plaintiffs did not file this suit until after they received these advances, and none of the three plaintiffs in this case who has received advances on account of the GHLP has offered to return it. Id.

Basically, Axl is probably still (today) working off this 5-1-98 amendment to the original Gnr recording contract that was started in 1986, amended in 1992 after Iz and Steve left, then amended again in 1998 by Axl after Slash and Duff left. I think that is when Axl formally got the name but he also relieved Slash and Duff of any liabilities of the recording costs for the new Gnr album which was allegedly going to be released by Axl on or before 3-1-99!  Good for Slash and Duff as substantial recording had been done from 1994 to 1998.

Agree 100% Sic.:butt: I still believe he should have never unveiled the new band until he had an album on the shelves.