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misterID
 Rep: 468 

Re: New Autographed GUNS N' ROSES Drumhead Appears To Confirm Lineup

misterID wrote:

Jim? Again, you're looking at videos for secret messages and your tea leaf readings are now slowly becoming fact instead of a wild guess. I'm sure he'll show up when he wants to.

Smoking Guns
 Rep: 329 

Re: New Autographed GUNS N' ROSES Drumhead Appears To Confirm Lineup

Smoking Guns wrote:
misterID wrote:

Jim? Again, you're looking at videos for secret messages and your tea leaf readings are now slowly becoming fact instead of a wild guess. I'm sure he'll show up when he wants to.

Carwash did say would get a 2016 GNR tour. But Carwash was slightly off on lineup, THUS FAR.

TheSundanceKid
 Rep: 30 

Re: New Autographed GUNS N' ROSES Drumhead Appears To Confirm Lineup

faldor wrote:

If Chris is out, and it looks to be leaning that way, questions abound. It could certainly be a money issue. Never thought of it that way, but money is always a factor. If you don't view him as essential, and I don't think anyone would. That's not to say he doesn't bring anything to the table, but if you're looking to trim the fat and have one less person to share the profits, he'd be at the top of the list.

Was this the plan all along or were his two well documented tweets the cause of this? If this was the plan, I'd say he was unaware. Maybe he jumped the gun and just assumed he was going to be a part of it? He put together that trailer that ran prior to Star Wars and tweeted about Coachella. So obviously he was all in early on. So it's interesting to think about how we ended up here. I know the popular belief will be that the tweets sealed his fate, but who knows with this organization. Wouldn't shock me if they strung him along and just recently let him know that he wasn't going to be a part of this, or at least they weren't upfront with him regarding his official status from the start. We'll probably never know for sure though, as is the case most often in the land of GNR.

Somewhere Teddy "ZigZag" Whatever the fuck his last name is, by the phone expecting a call!

As is Tracey and Roberta.

TheSundanceKid
 Rep: 30 

Re: New Autographed GUNS N' ROSES Drumhead Appears To Confirm Lineup

monkeychow wrote:
FlashFlood wrote:

Anybody complaining about this lineup should point their frustration at Slash and Duff. They chose to rejoin the band. It's not Axl's fault that Adler, Sorum, Stradlin, etc. aren't a part of it - Slash and Duff chose to rejoin a current touring entity.

I agree...but then I also think...when it became clear they wanted to rejoin...Tommy quietly went into the night....and DJ politely diplomatically left....and then they now seem to have squeezed out pitman....then they swapped the whole branding of the band to 80s/90s GNR.

I find it weird that everyone on here seems to hate sorum...his drum style is very apparent on UYI1, UY2 and TSI and he was a huge part of the feel of the songs on use your illusion - which is what people are always calling to be added back to the setlist.

I think you gave me karma so I like you bro.

Sorum just comes off as a HUGE DICK.

It isn't like Axl where you know he is a hardworking artist and you know he is smart, and a charming chap.

Sorum is a dick.

I thought a lot of the Illusions albums had Steven all over it.

DJ clearly decided to take his ball and go with Nikki 6. I don't think he did it diplomatically he had a choice and he choose the shitty hair metal band he belongs in.

Tommy clearly was on the way out with the Replacements thing (even though that is likely over.

I'm just soooooo fucking happy shitty tattoo rip off slash's top hat is gone. God I hated that prick. I've never been a big Slash lover as he refused to take a picture with my bud at a book signing. But, fuck man. Only one person in Guns can wear a top hat and that's Slash.

I loved Bucket and Robin. So I was never a fan of this DJ era. I'm so happy it is over and we can sweep it under the rug and pretend like it never happened.

To conclude, Sorum hate is because he is a prick / dip shit.

monkeychow
 Rep: 640 

Re: New Autographed GUNS N' ROSES Drumhead Appears To Confirm Lineup

monkeychow wrote:
misterID wrote:

We have Axl, Slash and Duff in the same band and it doesn't seem to be good enough.

Spot on.

I've been a fan since 87 or something but somewhere I've lost a bit of patience.

It started around 2009 when they let that amazing tour doco of the asian tour languish and die....just like they had the 2006 era doco...the second CD album...the cinema release and a bunch of other stuff.

Then it got worse  when Slash starting going solo and using up his best riffs with session musos instead of GNR and VR where he had world famous chemistry with people on his level. Just cos it's easier to do his own thing.

What was the turning point? Maybe it was Rock In Rio 2012 (Still referred to by the general public on youtube as "The Axl Rose Disaster") where you watch it back and academically wonder how a band with so much talent can do that to itself.

Maybe it the hall of fame, where Axl didn't rock up, Dizzy made some excuse, Izzy was too cool again, and we wound up with Myles kennedy and fucking greenday talking about GNR.

Maybe it's that there's unreleased songs being hoarded from 2001 and it's 2016 this year.

I think a MAJOR part of it started in 2014 in vegas when GNR faithfully promised us through it's mastabatory series of fernando and band hints that something special would happen - only to perform basically a rehash of it's previous vegas residency only with less rasp and less enthusiasm across the board.

But come to think of it - it might be that they chose one of those performances as the one to release on BD - all be it a couple years on as usual. Never mind all the asskicking stuff in the vault from better shows.

Then this reunion started. It's kinda disconcerting on some level. I mean Axl said he would die first. Slash and Duff have always been holding out for something to change. In a way it's disturbing for Axl to cave on his hatred and Slash to cave on his principles but fuck me....the world has needed GNR badly for 30 years (because basically Axl's solo GNR refuses to release enough to fill the void). So I was happy anyway. Fuck how can you not be happy about a GNR reunion with Axl and Slash right?

But then they cancelled that TV interview where they were going to explain what was going on. Then they decided it was best to play more secrecy shit like they have for 30 years. Can't tell us the line up. Can't explain if there's plans for a full tour. Can't tell us the status if there's new music or not. Can't even say who is in the fucking band.

And you know what i'm tired of it. I'm tired of everything being self sabotaged. I'm tired of them shitting all over their own artistic creation with the bullshit that's gone on - be it the petty fights, the vaulting of creative output or whatever. Axl can call me a cunt or whatever and say he owes us nothing - but i'm not so sure. At some point if you live in the luxury of fame, if you were gifted with the sort of talent Axl and Slash got from god, the universe or their genes or whatever you have a fucking responsibility to stop ruining it. It's like someone knowing the cure to illness but just not feeling like sharing it.

So yeah...obviously i'm happy to see Axl and Slash play together next month...but you know what I'm sick of taking the minimum - it's about time they did something properly but it's painfully obvious they don't give a fuck what fans want and scorn anyone who even likes them.

monkeychow
 Rep: 640 

Re: New Autographed GUNS N' ROSES Drumhead Appears To Confirm Lineup

monkeychow wrote:
TheSundanceKid wrote:

I thought a lot of the Illusions albums had Steven all over it.

From memory he only plays on Civil War.

I see the style of those albums as distinctly Matt - it's quite similar to contraband.

TheSundanceKid wrote:

I don't think he did it diplomatically he had a choice and he choose the shitty hair metal band he belongs in.

I felt he was pretty tactful about it though. He gave a statement thanking Axl and the fans for his time - expressed how much he had enjoyed his time in the band. Then later said positive things about the return of Slash.

Sure he quit, but when you consider the chance he had to talk shit he was really very polite about it all. For instance we know he was songwriting with Axl on songs that never came out. He could easily rant on about how he tried to get Axl to release an album but Axl wouldn't or whatever.


TheSundanceKid wrote:

To conclude, Sorum hate is because he is a prick / dip shit.

I have two thoughts about this. The first is that if fandom of GNR required the band to be nice guys all the time there would be no fans. I mean Axl has a bit of a history with his wives, slash has the jet boy incident, Izzy used to deal drugs - no saints in GNR. I don't think anything sorum has done are worse than those incidents. Secondly, Sorum was very classy about Adler at the Rock hall - sharing the stage with him - saying he'd only do a reunion if he was involved - he didn't have to be nice to him but he was.

At the end of the day I'm sure the show will be good with just Axl and Slash....but I'm just saying I think Matt should be respected for his contributions and it's disappointing he's not involved.

Smoking Guns
 Rep: 329 

Re: New Autographed GUNS N' ROSES Drumhead Appears To Confirm Lineup

Smoking Guns wrote:

To be fair there are demos of many illusions songs with Adler on drums but it was only Civil War that he actually made it on the album with.   So many of the drum parts were ideas Adler had. I am not sure on how many. I think Locomotive and Don't Damn Me are 2.

TheSundanceKid
 Rep: 30 

Re: New Autographed GUNS N' ROSES Drumhead Appears To Confirm Lineup

monkeychow wrote:
TheSundanceKid wrote:

I thought a lot of the Illusions albums had Steven all over it.

From memory he only plays on Civil War.

I see the style of those albums as distinctly Matt - it's quite similar to contraband.

TheSundanceKid wrote:

I don't think he did it diplomatically he had a choice and he choose the shitty hair metal band he belongs in.

I felt he was pretty tactful about it though. He gave a statement thanking Axl and the fans for his time - expressed how much he had enjoyed his time in the band. Then later said positive things about the return of Slash.

Sure he quit, but when you consider the chance he had to talk shit he was really very polite about it all. For instance we know he was songwriting with Axl on songs that never came out. He could easily rant on about how he tried to get Axl to release an album but Axl wouldn't or whatever.


TheSundanceKid wrote:

To conclude, Sorum hate is because he is a prick / dip shit.

I have two thoughts about this. The first is that if fandom of GNR required the band to be nice guys all the time there would be no fans. I mean Axl has a bit of a history with his wives, slash has the jet boy incident, Izzy used to deal drugs - no saints in GNR. I don't think anything sorum has done are worse than those incidents. Secondly, Sorum was very classy about Adler at the Rock hall - sharing the stage with him - saying he'd only do a reunion if he was involved - he didn't have to be nice to him but he was.

At the end of the day I'm sure the show will be good with just Axl and Slash....but I'm just saying I think Matt should be respected for his contributions and it's disappointing he's not involved.

I like your opinion even though I am not on your argument's side.

Didn't they play all Appetite songs at the Rock N' Roll Hall of Fame? So of course Steven should have been the drummer.

Sorum's comments like "I thought I was joining a rock n' roll band, what's with the piano?" And just his general attitude is bad.

I've already made this point..."The thing why I believe some fans don't care for Sorum, is because where are the credits? He has no writing credits. I believe Steven has some."

I think you could have put any drummer in Guns after Sorum and it wouldn't matter. Even perhaps Adler. They're replaceable.

I am only going to reference bands that I know of. But, The Beach Boys were never the same without Dennis Wilson (drummer, multi-instrumentalist, soul of the band, Brian Wilson's biggest supporter, and songwriter), and Led Zeppelin split up because of the lack of John Bonham (he also has a shit ton of songwriting credits and, yes they did those three reunion shows). Those drummers were cornerstone in those bands. They added something. Same could be said about Keith Moon. You can't do Metallica without Lars Ulrich. I'd say those drummers mattered.

With Guns N' Roses you don't need Steven Adler or Matt Sorum. If Sorum is so crucial to the band he should have the credits. It isn't like Axl is cheap on it. And worries money, money, money. The dude is rather generous with sharing co-writing credits. That's my point about Sorum not being crucial or critical at all. Only the hardcores love those chaps.

To go off on a tangent, would you need an Izzy Stradlin'? I think so. Look at the songwriting. Yes Axl, Slash and Duff have wrote shit together in the past. But, Izzy gives you a way better songwriting dynamic.

Again, liability factors for Adler.

And if I was Axl I wouldn't want Sorum in the band. After all, I fired the fuck for taking a piss on Tobias. And he played with Velvet Revolver. Petty right?  Well someone (I read on the forums), mentioned the 3 against 2 dynamic. Even if Axl is cool and broish with Slash and Duff now. That still has to come across his mind, that Sorum might side with Slash and Duff in a dispute vs good old Uncle Axl.

I just think the drummer in Guns is replaceable. No one will care too much about it. None of Guns N' Roses drummers are of the Dennis Wilson / John Bonham caliber. I am not just talking technical here. I'm talking wow those guys were a leg in that table. They mattered songwriting wise and performance wise.

Guns drummers are just disposable.

It will be an interesting time to see who is in the band, and if Izzy is involved.

My apologies for taking a piss on Steven Adler and Matt Sorum.

misterID
 Rep: 468 

Re: New Autographed GUNS N' ROSES Drumhead Appears To Confirm Lineup

misterID wrote:
monkeychow wrote:
misterID wrote:

We have Axl, Slash and Duff in the same band and it doesn't seem to be good enough.

Spot on.

I've been a fan since 87 or something but somewhere I've lost a bit of patience.

It started around 2009 when they let that amazing tour doco of the asian tour languish and die....just like they had the 2006 era doco...the second CD album...the cinema release and a bunch of other stuff.

Then it got worse  when Slash starting going solo and using up his best riffs with session musos instead of GNR and VR where he had world famous chemistry with people on his level. Just cos it's easier to do his own thing.

What was the turning point? Maybe it was Rock In Rio 2012 (Still referred to by the general public on youtube as "The Axl Rose Disaster") where you watch it back and academically wonder how a band with so much talent can do that to itself.

Maybe it the hall of fame, where Axl didn't rock up, Dizzy made some excuse, Izzy was too cool again, and we wound up with Myles kennedy and fucking greenday talking about GNR.

Maybe it's that there's unreleased songs being hoarded from 2001 and it's 2016 this year.

I think a MAJOR part of it started in 2014 in vegas when GNR faithfully promised us through it's mastabatory series of fernando and band hints that something special would happen - only to perform basically a rehash of it's previous vegas residency only with less rasp and less enthusiasm across the board.

But come to think of it - it might be that they chose one of those performances as the one to release on BD - all be it a couple years on as usual. Never mind all the asskicking stuff in the vault from better shows.

Then this reunion started. It's kinda disconcerting on some level. I mean Axl said he would die first. Slash and Duff have always been holding out for something to change. In a way it's disturbing for Axl to cave on his hatred and Slash to cave on his principles but fuck me....the world has needed GNR badly for 30 years (because basically Axl's solo GNR refuses to release enough to fill the void). So I was happy anyway. Fuck how can you not be happy about a GNR reunion with Axl and Slash right?

But then they cancelled that TV interview where they were going to explain what was going on. Then they decided it was best to play more secrecy shit like they have for 30 years. Can't tell us the line up. Can't explain if there's plans for a full tour. Can't tell us the status if there's new music or not. Can't even say who is in the fucking band.

And you know what i'm tired of it. I'm tired of everything being self sabotaged. I'm tired of them shitting all over their own artistic creation with the bullshit that's gone on - be it the petty fights, the vaulting of creative output or whatever. Axl can call me a cunt or whatever and say he owes us nothing - but i'm not so sure. At some point if you live in the luxury of fame, if you were gifted with the sort of talent Axl and Slash got from god, the universe or their genes or whatever you have a fucking responsibility to stop ruining it. It's like someone knowing the cure to illness but just not feeling like sharing it.

So yeah...obviously i'm happy to see Axl and Slash play together next month...but you know what I'm sick of taking the minimum - it's about time they did something properly but it's painfully obvious they don't give a fuck what fans want and scorn anyone who even likes them.

Well, I'm stoked. I'm not concentrating on the static. If people have a problem it's totally personal, and beyond the band and music; if Matt was involved the fury would shift to not having Gilby in the band. It's a big black cloud I want no part of.

Major Mayhem
 Rep: 6 

Re: New Autographed GUNS N' ROSES Drumhead Appears To Confirm Lineup

Major Mayhem wrote:
TheSundanceKid wrote:

Guns drummers are just disposable.

I agree, and Matt Sorum was such a divicive player.  He came in, played Adler's drum parts, or what Axl told him to play, was demeaning and condescending to the evolution of the band. 

I think people who believe this is a Guns reunion, that Sorum just has to be included for it to be right, are more concerned with having a familiar face, and so you get the cries for Gilby, as well.  But, really, they have no more merit than Fortus or Frank.   They're all just playing other people's parts.

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