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metallex78
 Rep: 192 

Re: US Politics Thread

metallex78 wrote:
TheMole wrote:
misterID wrote:

Hey dufus, our population and population in relation to guns is COMPLETELY different. Ban guns? There's more guns than people by millions, the trade would get MORE dangerous.

Talk about special little snowflakes huh... "America is so special, the people are so different, what works in other countries will never work for us, 'cause you know... we're special..."

Lot of good your legal gun trade does you... "hey, that mass murderer bought that gun fair and square, and we can see exactly where he bought it, where he got his license, etc...". Whoopty fucking doo...
https://i.imgur.com/LL3vNTw.gif

Look, I know I'm being an ass, I know there's cultural sensitivities that I'm probably missing or just flat out ignoring. I do understand it's hard to convince a nation of gun lovers to make certain changes. The fact that it's hard doesn't mean it's not the right approach.

See, I don't really think the problem in the US is gun legislation at all, I think the problem is gun glorification. America's gun laws are only somewhat less strict than comparably advanced and free countries, certainly not to the extent that it would lead to a 10-fold increase in gun violence. There are 5 times more murders per capita in the US compared to the UK, 6 times more than in Germany, 8 times more than in France, 12 times more than in Japan. I'm specifically quoting numbers for homicides in general 'cause I don't want people to weasel out of this by saying knives and baseball bats kill people too. And just to be clear, the numbers for gun-related homicides are even more diverging and make the US look even worse.

To the point of gun legislation though, consider the following: in the US one in three households owns one or more firearms; in Germany, it's one in 9 (one third), in France one in 8 (almost half). Just to compare, gun legislation in France for example is fairly loose. Everyone is allowed to own a gun, under the following conditions:

  • They are 18 years old (16 if they compete in international shooting competitions)

  • Have a hunting license, or are affiliated with a shooting range

  • Pass a medical check

You know, fairly simple stuff, similar to getting a driver's license. If you want to buy a semi-automatic rifle you do need to also attend at least three lessons with a professional instructor, and that license is only valid for 5 years, but still... fairly straightforward.

So given that the people in those countries are just as free to own a gun as you Americans are, why do the French, British, Germans, etc... not own more guns per capita then? The answer is SUPER simple... it's simply not a thing for them... it doesn't make them feel "free", or "in charge". They don't look at guns as their last and only line of defense. Most people in Europe will look at a machine designed to kill people in disgust, while a lot of Americans (I hesitate to say "most", but certainly the most vocal part) look at a gun and see it as a symbol of freedom. That's what's wrong with the US, that's what needs to be changed.

So no, I do not think lax gun legislation is the reason for America's gun woes. However, stricter gun legislation is needed to send a signal to gun lovers that change is coming, to stop that knee-jerk reaction some even on this very forum have to "get more good guys with guns to fight the bad guys with guns". Guns are not a solution, going into an arms race with idiots, the scum of society, is never a good idea.

And THAT is what Australia did so effectively, change the mindset about guns...
So before you dismiss what has worked in other countries on some vaguely defined premise of being "different", consider if you really want to be "different" from the rest of the free world in this regard. "different" might in this case simply be another word for "worse".

Agreed with everything said here ^^^

misterID
 Rep: 471 

Re: US Politics Thread

misterID wrote:
TheMole wrote:
misterID wrote:

Hey dufus, our population and population in relation to guns is COMPLETELY different. Ban guns? There's more guns than people by millions, the trade would get MORE dangerous.

Talk about special little snowflakes huh... "America is so special, the people are so different, what works in other countries will never work for us, 'cause you know... we're special..."

Lot of good your legal gun trade does you... "hey, that mass murderer bought that gun fair and square, and we can see exactly where he bought it, where he got his license, etc...". Whoopty fucking doo...
https://i.imgur.com/LL3vNTw.gif

Look, I know I'm being an ass, I know there's cultural sensitivities that I'm probably missing or just flat out ignoring. I do understand it's hard to convince a nation of gun lovers to make certain changes. The fact that it's hard doesn't mean it's not the right approach.

See, I don't really think the problem in the US is gun legislation at all, I think the problem is gun glorification. America's gun laws are only somewhat less strict than comparably advanced and free countries, certainly not to the extent that it would lead to a 10-fold increase in gun violence. There are 5 times more murders per capita in the US compared to the UK, 6 times more than in Germany, 8 times more than in France, 12 times more than in Japan. I'm specifically quoting numbers for homicides in general 'cause I don't want people to weasel out of this by saying knives and baseball bats kill people too. And just to be clear, the numbers for gun-related homicides are even more diverging and make the US look even worse.

To the point of gun legislation though, consider the following: in the US one in three households owns one or more firearms; in Germany, it's one in 9 (one third), in France one in 8 (almost half). Just to compare, gun legislation in France for example is fairly loose. Everyone is allowed to own a gun, under the following conditions:

  • They are 18 years old (16 if they compete in international shooting competitions)

  • Have a hunting license, or are affiliated with a shooting range

  • Pass a medical check

You know, fairly simple stuff, similar to getting a driver's license. If you want to buy a semi-automatic rifle you do need to also attend at least three lessons with a professional instructor, and that license is only valid for 5 years, but still... fairly straightforward.

So given that the people in those countries are just as free to own a gun as you Americans are, why do the French, British, Germans, etc... not own more guns per capita then? The answer is SUPER simple... it's simply not a thing for them... it doesn't make them feel "free", or "in charge". They don't look at guns as their last and only line of defense. Most people in Europe will look at a machine designed to kill people in disgust, while a lot of Americans (I hesitate to say "most", but certainly the most vocal part) look at a gun and see it as a symbol of freedom. That's what's wrong with the US, that's what needs to be changed.

So no, I do not think lax gun legislation is the reason for America's gun woes. However, stricter gun legislation is needed to send a signal to gun lovers that change is coming, to stop that knee-jerk reaction some even on this very forum have to "get more good guys with guns to fight the bad guys with guns". Guns are not a solution, going into an arms race with idiots, the scum of society, is never a good idea.

And THAT is what Australia did so effectively, change the mindset about guns...
So before you dismiss what has worked in other countries on some vaguely defined premise of being "different", consider if you really want to be "different" from the rest of the free world in this regard. "different" might in this case simply be another word for "worse".

I've given more than enough stats and solutions. You guys ignored them, so this his just drivel.

TheMole
 Rep: 77 

Re: US Politics Thread

TheMole wrote:
misterID wrote:

I've given more than enough stats and solutions. You guys ignored them, so this his just drivel.

I will admit that I don't read everything in this thread... some of the thinking on display here is quite disheartening to read to be honest. But that whole "we're different" line of reasoning just really ticks me off... there's nothing inherently different about US citizens, they're not somehow genetically more inclined to shoot or murder people. It is fixable, but it's never going to get fixed if you just close your eyes, cover your ears and repeat that "won't work for us" mantra over and over again.

Were my stats somehow wrong then? Here are my references:
* Alpers, Philip, Amélie Rossetti and Daniel Salinas. 2018. Guns in the United States: Proportion of Households with Firearms. Sydney School of Public Health, The University of Sydney.
* Alpers, Philip, Amélie Rossetti and Daniel Salinas. 2018. Guns in the United States: Homicides (All Means). Sydney School of Public Health, The University of Sydney.
* https://www.service-public.fr/particuli … roits/N287

bigbri
 Rep: 341 

Re: US Politics Thread

bigbri wrote:

Well, we sent him after a night and morning of debate, investigating, and calls. If he had no tests today, we might have kept him home.

Randall Flagg
 Rep: 131 

Re: US Politics Thread

Just for you, Mitch. 19
Trump hits 50% approval rating. Higher than Obama was at this point.
http://m.rasmussenreports.com/public_co … rack_feb23

mitchejw
 Rep: 128 

Re: US Politics Thread

mitchejw wrote:
Randall Flagg wrote:

Just for you, Mitch. 19
Trump hits 50% approval rating. Higher than Obama was at this point.
http://m.rasmussenreports.com/public_co … rack_feb23

Thanks Flagg...I was starting to get the shakes from withdrawal.

https://edition.cnn.com/2018/02/21/poli … index.html

If we learned nothing else from the last election, we learned each poll has its bias.

I like the video attached....of Republican women complaining about people who criticize the president. Good god you can't make this shit up sometimes.

Smoking Guns
 Rep: 330 

Re: US Politics Thread

Smoking Guns wrote:

I watched Hannity on CPac and they were big assholes to Geraldo like the CNN crowd was to Rubio. Fuck this shit man.

Randall Flagg
 Rep: 131 

Re: US Politics Thread

mitchejw wrote:
Randall Flagg wrote:

Just for you, Mitch. 19
Trump hits 50% approval rating. Higher than Obama was at this point.
http://m.rasmussenreports.com/public_co … rack_feb23

Thanks Flagg...I was starting to get the shakes from withdrawal.

https://edition.cnn.com/2018/02/21/poli … index.html

If we learned nothing else from the last election, we learned each poll has its bias.

I like the video attached....of Republican women complaining about people who criticize the president. Good god you can't make this shit up sometimes.


The key difference is Rasmussen looks at likely voters while the others sample the general population.

I don’t get caught up on polls, but I think the distinction in sampling matters.

Randall Flagg
 Rep: 131 

Re: US Politics Thread

Smoking Guns wrote:

I watched Hannity on CPac and they were big assholes to Geraldo like the CNN crowd was to Rubio. Fuck this shit man.


Didn’t see the Hannity episode, but I’d find it hard to be more disrespectful and anti intellectual than the CNN town hall was. Kids were coached and scripted what to say.

I saw a meme on Facebook I thought was funny.

CNN: 16 years olds should be listened to on gun policy

Me: 2 weeks ago these kids were eating tide pods

Smoking Guns
 Rep: 330 

Re: US Politics Thread

Smoking Guns wrote:
Randall Flagg wrote:
Smoking Guns wrote:

I watched Hannity on CPac and they were big assholes to Geraldo like the CNN crowd was to Rubio. Fuck this shit man.


Didn’t see the Hannity episode, but I’d find it hard to be more disrespectful and anti intellectual than the CNN town hall was. Kids were coached and scripted what to say.

I saw a meme on Facebook I thought was funny.

CNN: 16 years olds should be listened to on gun policy

Me: 2 weeks ago these kids were eating tide pods

They went ballistic because Geraldo suggested raising the age from 18 to 21 to purchase an AR-15. Dan Bongino sounded like a fucking idiot and before last night I liked him. Dana Lasche was a big bitch as well to Geraldo. Geraldo isn’t a liberal.

CNN those kids needed an ass beating.

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