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buzzsaw
 Rep: 423 

Re: Covid 19

buzzsaw wrote:
misterID wrote:
buzzsaw wrote:
misterID wrote:

No, dude, you keep ignoring the point that's brought up a gazillion times that it's not just death rates. Businesses closed on their own accord because the sickness would make things worse than just sending folks home. There's a lot more to this than death rates... It's not a flu, people don't just bounce back from it. This is an unhealthy nation with people who don't know they have underlying health issues. Nursing homes, places where the elderly are LITERALLY separated and isolated from everyone else, are getting wiped out, so your argument about that simple, solitary task is complete bullshit.

You're relying on people to do the right thing out there and be hygienic and they aren't. They just want to ride around in cars and scream they're right and everyone else is wrong.

No, you're not understanding because you're making no effort to do so.  The media has convinced you that it's an instant death sentence and you've bought into it hook line and sinker.  The numbers tell the complete opposite story, but you do ignorant you. 

The elderly are the ones at risk chump.  Do you understand that?  The virus doesn't seek them out.  It doesn't fly across the globe and invade nursing homes.  It's like you just have no concept of how any of this works.  You must have a different definition of isolation than the rest of the world.  Individuals that should be isolating themselves because they are responsible for those at risk aren't doing so.  We don't punish everybody because a few people do what they want to do.  That's not how civilization works.  Let me say this again so it sinks in just how fucking stupid you are...PEOPLE ARE SUPPOSED TO BE ISOLATING AND YET THIS SHIT HAPPENS ANYWAY.  What the fuck are we accomplishing?  All the numbers are trending downward...even in the hardest hit places.  There are a few random hotspots.  The numbers ALL bear that out, but damned if we don't have the gullible that can't process anything without being told what to think.

lol, I just said this isn't just about death. And have a little self awareness, because the unintentional comedy of your posts is hilarious. You're talking to yourself. Death rates are low and dropping because people are staying home. And...
this isn't just about death rates
this isn't just about death rates
this isn't just about death rates
this isn't just about death rates
this isn't just about death rates
Nursing homes are not protecting the elderly. The most at risk. Where the country has opened back up, cops are saying people ARE NOT practicing good hygiene or proper distancing. Relying on people to do the right thing is not a good idea, imo. smile

And who is at fault for that?  INDIVIDUALS.  We are not a country that is founded on the principle that we fuck everyone over because one person can't behave.

Read up about Sweden.  Good luck arguing that we're not exactly where I said we'd be.  Thank you!

buzzsaw
 Rep: 423 

Re: Covid 19

buzzsaw wrote:
buzzsaw wrote:

Sweden seems to be doing things right...shocking.

How Sweden suppressed infection rates without a lockdown

https://news.yahoo.com/sweden-suppresse … 53654.html

So...who wants to argue with this data?

I'll be back later...can't wait for all the responses of how this is a fluke or whatever other desperate plea you want to throw out to tug at people's heartstrings while the facts continue to say we've done this all wrong.

mitchejw
 Rep: 128 

Re: Covid 19

mitchejw wrote:
buzzsaw wrote:
AtariLegend wrote:
bigbri wrote:

Well, 3,000 a day is what the CDC is now projecting. https://int.nyt.com/data/documenthelper … pdf#page=1

Come on Bigbri.

The numbers aren't real, no one's really dying... it's all a hoax created by mirrors! The evidence is in Hillary's emails!

Besides even if it was, you could just drink some chlorine or inject bleach into your veins.

The hoax will be done by Spring, "the greatest", "most persecuted", "very stable genius", Randall, SG and Buzz's hero will sort it all out "son".

Good lord are you the dumbest mutherfucker ever.  We really need to get that ignore feature working again.  Not even going to waste my time on you since you're incapable of thinking for yourself.

You are the perfect Trump supporter...

ok buzz wins....he's a genius...he knows more than any of us. We're not capable of thinking on his level.

misterID
 Rep: 468 

Re: Covid 19

misterID wrote:
buzzsaw wrote:
misterID wrote:
buzzsaw wrote:

No, you're not understanding because you're making no effort to do so.  The media has convinced you that it's an instant death sentence and you've bought into it hook line and sinker.  The numbers tell the complete opposite story, but you do ignorant you. 

The elderly are the ones at risk chump.  Do you understand that?  The virus doesn't seek them out.  It doesn't fly across the globe and invade nursing homes.  It's like you just have no concept of how any of this works.  You must have a different definition of isolation than the rest of the world.  Individuals that should be isolating themselves because they are responsible for those at risk aren't doing so.  We don't punish everybody because a few people do what they want to do.  That's not how civilization works.  Let me say this again so it sinks in just how fucking stupid you are...PEOPLE ARE SUPPOSED TO BE ISOLATING AND YET THIS SHIT HAPPENS ANYWAY.  What the fuck are we accomplishing?  All the numbers are trending downward...even in the hardest hit places.  There are a few random hotspots.  The numbers ALL bear that out, but damned if we don't have the gullible that can't process anything without being told what to think.

lol, I just said this isn't just about death. And have a little self awareness, because the unintentional comedy of your posts is hilarious. You're talking to yourself. Death rates are low and dropping because people are staying home. And...
this isn't just about death rates
this isn't just about death rates
this isn't just about death rates
this isn't just about death rates
this isn't just about death rates
Nursing homes are not protecting the elderly. The most at risk. Where the country has opened back up, cops are saying people ARE NOT practicing good hygiene or proper distancing. Relying on people to do the right thing is not a good idea, imo. smile

And who is at fault for that?  INDIVIDUALS.  We are not a country that is founded on the principle that we fuck everyone over because one person can't behave.

Read up about Sweden.  Good luck arguing that we're not exactly where I said we'd be.  Thank you!

And you have no grasp of context! As we tried to explain to you, we are not Sweden. Our populations ARE VERY DIFFERENT.

FORBES:

Sweden’s 2,586 deaths compare poorly with Denmark’s 452, and Norway’s 207. Taking population into account, Sweden has suffered more deaths per million people than the U.S. (although deaths aren't always counted in the same way).

When looking at all-cause mortality — which is probably a better gauge of the real level of coronavirus deaths — Sweden has been hit with “very high” excess deaths since the start of the year, according to the European body monitoring these statistics. In Denmark, they’ve been “low.”

The counterargument is that Sweden has accepted more deaths in exchange for trying to achieve group immunity more quickly and protecting its economy from lasting collapse. Several big countries in Europe with stricter lockdowns have suffered more excess deaths and greater economic damage than Sweden while being more aggressive about halting infections. But they felt they had no other way to relieve their overrun hospitals, a problem that Sweden doesn’t have.

We don’t know what other nations might have gone through if they’d followed the Swedish model — France estimates its own lockdown saved 60,000 lives. We also don’t know how much immunity has been acquired by the Swedes. An official report estimating that a third of Stockholm’s population would develop antibodies to the virus by May 1 was withdrawn after an error.

We do know that Sweden’s Covid-19 journey hasn’t been exceptional. Like other countries, it has experienced a surge in deaths in care homes, where about one in three virus deaths is estimated to have taken place. Visiting relatives and staff are expected to “self-regulate” but, according to reports, they don’t always do so. The Swedes have also had a lack of systematic testing and equipment shortages.


Things might have been even worse without the Swedes’ demographic and cultural defenses. This is a population that does social distancing already in many ways. More than half of the country lives in single-person households, working from home is common and access to fast broadband is everywhere. But Swedes are becoming increasingly unconcerned about keeping their distance as time goes on, as images of packed restaurants indicate. Public-health officials have warned about their behavior. In Stockholm they’ve threatened to shut bars and restaurants.

At the same time, migrant workers in the country are being infected disproportionately, according to a recent national survey. The hyper-individualist expectation to “self-regulate” looks too complacent for immigrant communities who lack access to information.

here's another thing for you to read up on: https://www.cnbc.com/2020/05/05/sweden- … gency.html

AND the figures I read, which were updated at 1:18 today, say their cases are up.

And yeah, GROUPS of individuals are the ones who are giving us problems. But like I told you a long time ago, if it's no big deal, go out, catch it, get it over with, and go on about your life. You know more than anyone else.

buzzsaw
 Rep: 423 

Re: Covid 19

buzzsaw wrote:
mitchejw wrote:
buzzsaw wrote:
AtariLegend wrote:

Come on Bigbri.

The numbers aren't real, no one's really dying... it's all a hoax created by mirrors! The evidence is in Hillary's emails!

Besides even if it was, you could just drink some chlorine or inject bleach into your veins.

The hoax will be done by Spring, "the greatest", "most persecuted", "very stable genius", Randall, SG and Buzz's hero will sort it all out "son".

Good lord are you the dumbest mutherfucker ever.  We really need to get that ignore feature working again.  Not even going to waste my time on you since you're incapable of thinking for yourself.

You are the perfect Trump supporter...

ok buzz wins....he's a genius...he knows more than any of us. We're not capable of thinking on his level.

If only I was a Trump supporter.  Your brilliance continues to shine through. 

Mitch: what questions?  I didn't see any questions.

also mitch: you don't like me so you love Trump.

If you can figure out how to read it (or get someone to read it to you), I'd be interested in your thoughts on the Sweden article from the same source you've used in the past (just in case you want to label it as some right wind shill).

buzzsaw
 Rep: 423 

Re: Covid 19

buzzsaw wrote:
misterID wrote:
buzzsaw wrote:
misterID wrote:

lol, I just said this isn't just about death. And have a little self awareness, because the unintentional comedy of your posts is hilarious. You're talking to yourself. Death rates are low and dropping because people are staying home. And...
this isn't just about death rates
this isn't just about death rates
this isn't just about death rates
this isn't just about death rates
this isn't just about death rates
Nursing homes are not protecting the elderly. The most at risk. Where the country has opened back up, cops are saying people ARE NOT practicing good hygiene or proper distancing. Relying on people to do the right thing is not a good idea, imo. smile

And who is at fault for that?  INDIVIDUALS.  We are not a country that is founded on the principle that we fuck everyone over because one person can't behave.

Read up about Sweden.  Good luck arguing that we're not exactly where I said we'd be.  Thank you!

And you have no grasp of context! As we tried to explain to you, we are not Sweden. Our populations ARE VERY DIFFERENT.

FORBES:

Sweden’s 2,586 deaths compare poorly with Denmark’s 452, and Norway’s 207. Taking population into account, Sweden has suffered more deaths per million people than the U.S. (although deaths aren't always counted in the same way).

When looking at all-cause mortality — which is probably a better gauge of the real level of coronavirus deaths — Sweden has been hit with “very high” excess deaths since the start of the year, according to the European body monitoring these statistics. In Denmark, they’ve been “low.”

The counterargument is that Sweden has accepted more deaths in exchange for trying to achieve group immunity more quickly and protecting its economy from lasting collapse. Several big countries in Europe with stricter lockdowns have suffered more excess deaths and greater economic damage than Sweden while being more aggressive about halting infections. But they felt they had no other way to relieve their overrun hospitals, a problem that Sweden doesn’t have.

We don’t know what other nations might have gone through if they’d followed the Swedish model — France estimates its own lockdown saved 60,000 lives. We also don’t know how much immunity has been acquired by the Swedes. An official report estimating that a third of Stockholm’s population would develop antibodies to the virus by May 1 was withdrawn after an error.

We do know that Sweden’s Covid-19 journey hasn’t been exceptional. Like other countries, it has experienced a surge in deaths in care homes, where about one in three virus deaths is estimated to have taken place. Visiting relatives and staff are expected to “self-regulate” but, according to reports, they don’t always do so. The Swedes have also had a lack of systematic testing and equipment shortages.


Things might have been even worse without the Swedes’ demographic and cultural defenses. This is a population that does social distancing already in many ways. More than half of the country lives in single-person households, working from home is common and access to fast broadband is everywhere. But Swedes are becoming increasingly unconcerned about keeping their distance as time goes on, as images of packed restaurants indicate. Public-health officials have warned about their behavior. In Stockholm they’ve threatened to shut bars and restaurants.

At the same time, migrant workers in the country are being infected disproportionately, according to a recent national survey. The hyper-individualist expectation to “self-regulate” looks too complacent for immigrant communities who lack access to information.

here's another thing for you to read up on: https://www.cnbc.com/2020/05/05/sweden- … gency.html

AND the figures I read, which were updated at 1:18 today, say their cases are up.

And yeah, GROUPS of individual are the ones who are giving us problems. But like I told you a long time ago, if it's no big deal, go out, catch it, get it over with, and go on about your life. You know more than anyone else.

So now context matters?  Or does it only matter when it benefits you?

You're not seeing it because you don't want to, but I'll play along.  Let's wait some more - the longer we wait, the more the data supports me.  I have all the time in the world.

misterID
 Rep: 468 

Re: Covid 19

misterID wrote:

Yeah... Context has always mattered. You have the counterargument written right above you. But knock yourself out.

buzzsaw
 Rep: 423 

Re: Covid 19

buzzsaw wrote:

One thing none of you seem to be understanding.  More cases is as a result of more testing.  You understand that, right?  We can all agree with that?

Okay, so now that the obvious is out of the way, more cases is a good thing.  Wait.  How can that be you ask?  Because we actually need more people to be infected.  And what we're learning as we find out more people are infected (outside of the obvious math that the death rate shrinks) is that so many people are infected with no symptoms or very minor symptoms.  What does that mean you ask?  Well, it means that if you get it, there's an amazingly small chance that you're even going to know you had it much less die from it.  What does that mean you ask? 

We successfully kept hospitals from getting overrun.  Now I know some of you are going to say that's 100% because of social distancing and some of us (or maybe just me) are going to say it's because this was nowhere near the big deal that it was hyped up to be.  You can make the numbers say what you want (apparently) since they are making all of this up as they go to justify the shutdown.  What the numbers do tell us though is that it spread in spite of the shutdown. In spite of the spread, hospitals are not overrun and they are in fact losing their asses.  Emergency hospitals getting torn down.  People still got infected, and an extremely small amount of those people died.  What they don't talk about is how few were sick enough to be hospitalized, how many were never actually sick, and what little difference social distancing actually made.

Instead, we've been force fed propaganda about how this is a death machine and cherry picking one off cases where something happens and they don't know why, so they link it to the virus.  EVERYTHING that happens to someone infected is as a result of the virus.  Nonsense.

As things open up, people are going to get infected.  People are going to die.  That was happening anyway and it was/is going to happen eventually.  These are just facts.  It is unavoidable.   There's no advantage to delaying that.  We need people to get infected.  Sweden shows there's little to no advantage to the quarantine unless you believe they have the European virus and its vastly different.  The sooner people get infected, the better off we're all going to be and the less infections there will be in 6 months or a year.  That's where all the data CNN isn't telling you is pointing.

misterID
 Rep: 468 

Re: Covid 19

misterID wrote:

Why are you talking to yourself?

A Private Eye
 Rep: 77 

Re: Covid 19

This thread is giving me a headache

buzzsaw wrote:

If you can figure out how to read it (or get someone to read it to you), I'd be interested in your thoughts on the Sweden article from the same source you've used in the past (just in case you want to label it as some right wind shill).

Just a side note but the article comes from the Telegraph newspaper in the UK, which is unquestionably right wing shill.

The article is interesting Buzz and when all is said and done Sweden will provide a useful counter point and reference. However their low population and geographical spread means it may not be the correct response for every country (it's not even certain it's the right response for Sweden yet). As it says in the article 'If Swedes hadn't changed their behaviour on the recommendation of the Public Health Institute, he stressed, Imperial would have been proven right.' Imperial being the Imperial College 'doomsday' model that completely changed the UK's response from herd immunity to lockdown. They acknowledge social distance was crucial to helping control the situation. I suppose it comes down to whether you trust a population to heed the health advice without it being enforced. The Swedish government perhaps trusted their people to be more responsible than most governments dared of theirs?

Next steps will be interesting. I agree about shielding the old and vulnerable and allowing the young, healthy and hopefully the growing numbers of immune to start things back up. With that said when you consider the vulnerable appear to be anyone over 65 and/or with COPD, heart issues, diabetes, obesity or immuno-compromised that's quite a large lump of society (literally) and that's before you count the people they live with. If they go back to work and then come home every night it defeats the point somewhat. Not easy but a compromise will have to be struck I think.

Some good news this week though, an accurate antibody test appears to be on the way and an antibody looks to have been identified that actually prevents infection. Also looks highly likely now that infection does provide immunity afterwards if only short to medium term. The reports of people infected then given the all clear then presenting re-infected were testing errors.

Also interestingly France has identified a positive case from December, a full month before their previously thought first case and several days before Corona virus had been reported to the WHO by China. I think the whole timeframe and calendar of this thing will ultimately need shuffling back a month or so.

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