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Re: **Kevin Cogill Who Leaked 9 GnR Songs Arrested Today**
The solution (for them to still earn good money) is fairly simple. They have to realize that they are not selling goods, they are providing a service. Make money from their concerts, promotional goods, etc...
Dunno there, Mole. I can agree to an extent as far as music goes, but trying to extend that to everything doesn't seem to work. You even mentioned theories and algorithms. I don't know about you, but I wouldn't be too excited to go buy tickets to Math & Algorithms Live Tour. Not really excited to go see Speilberg tell the story of E.T. either.
Just because something can be copied exactly - bit for bit in this age, doesn't equate to it being available in unlimited supply. You still need that initial creation. Sounds have been in unlimited supply since the birth of the universe, but it takes people like Mozart, or Hendrix, or Axl to create something pleasing from them.
Damn. Gotta run at the moment, so can't write more.
But as someone who has and probably will rely on intellectual property for my income for the rest of my life, I think you're oversimplifying an complex issue.
Re: **Kevin Cogill Who Leaked 9 GnR Songs Arrested Today**
Dunno there, Mole. I can agree to an extent as far as music goes, but trying to extend that to everything doesn't seem to work. You even mentioned theories and algorithms. I don't know about you, but I wouldn't be too excited to go buy tickets to Math & Algorithms Live Tour. Not really excited to go see Speilberg tell the story of E.T. either.
Just because something can be copied exactly - bit for bit in this age, doesn't equate to it being available in unlimited supply. You still need that initial creation. Sounds have been in unlimited supply since the birth of the universe, but it takes people like Mozart, or Hendrix, or Axl to create something pleasing from them.
Damn. Gotta run at the moment, so can't write more.
But as someone who has and probably will rely on intellectual property for my income for the rest of my life, I think you're oversimplifying an complex issue.
Obviously I'm presenting things in a slightly simplified manner 
.
If I'm not mistaken, you are a graphical artist, right? Do you make your art out of your own accord and try to sell that afterwards, or do you hire your services to those who need specific artistic content? If you do the latter (like I suspect most artists that try to make a living out of it do), you're already selling your skills as a service.
Obviously, there are areas where alternative ways of earning money with your skills aren't as obvious, or maybe even very difficult to find. There are probably lots of scenarios where people will be earning less money with what they do then before the digital age. C'est la vie. Economies change, and people need to realize that. Clinging to the present, or worse: the past, is the worst thing you can do. Many a company has gone out of business because of that, and my assumption is the RIAA and MPAA will need to realize this before the same fate presents itself to them.
In the end, if you really need to rely on volume for selling your IP, better make sure it's paired with something else, and the price impact is negligible (e.g. drop the price of CD's, to production + distribution cost for the physical good + a very small amount for the actual content. There are enough people who want a physical copy and a nice booklet).
Re: **Kevin Cogill Who Leaked 9 GnR Songs Arrested Today**
I'm glad that I've stayed away from this one...
- Bright Eyes 2005
- Rep: 27
Re: **Kevin Cogill Who Leaked 9 GnR Songs Arrested Today**
I will try to explain one more time, but some of you, it seems come to this board to not only perpetuate lies, but also to attack the band which you must enjoy, which is implicit in your visitation to this board. Here are the facts:
--GN'R had nothing, nothing to do with this legal matter--besides being ripped off. They did not make the decision to try and get commercial publicity for his website by posting the songs.
--The RIAA (note Wall Street Journal Article) has a team, that had to pursure these instances, due to an agreement they made in 2005 with the record industry.
--Nothing would have happened, had he not been associated with Universal--that opened up liability for Universal, and they have to protect their contracts with other artists.
--This case is not about GN'R, and is about copyright in general--there are thousands of bands involved in this, it's just this self-publicized leak perpetuated a prosectution.
--If you shoot someone, or rob a bank, and then blog about it and publicize it to the world, you give the authorities no choice but to prosecute. The method of his distribution spelled doom.
--Trying, though, to tie GN'R to this, and then to bag on them, is insane, and some psychological disorder, where you express your own personal anger, by displacing it vicariously on something you have no control over. When Japan bombed Pearl Harbor, we did not invade Mexico, because Japan bombed us. Quit attacking GN'R, for something that really, has nothing to do with them besides them being the "house which was randomly robbed". Police don't care who's house was robbed, just that the person who was caught robbing it was prosecuted.
BTW, this is totally different than the Napster-Metallica deal, and you don't see Axl on TV launching an attack against this---it is out of his control. It did not matter whose music this guy leaked, but the way he did it---if this was U2, MIA, whoever, the RIAA contractually had to pursue.
The case represents "the beginning of an effort to be more aggressive," said Kathy Loedler, the RIAA's director of investigations for the western region, adding that the industry wanted to add bite to its existing strategy. "When we tell somebody to just take it down and there's no penalty, there's no arrest, there's no fine, it's very easy for them to continue to do it."
Assistant U.S. Attorney Craig Missakian said the RIAA had alerted the Department of Justice to the case, and he planned to prosecute similar cases as they arose. "We take this type of crime very seriously," he said
.
- Mikkamakka
- Rep: 217
Re: **Kevin Cogill Who Leaked 9 GnR Songs Arrested Today**
Mikkamakka wrote:To those who claim the guy deserved what he got, it was stolen property etc... Have you guys downloaded these leaks? Cause you surely knew it was copyrighted AND stolen material. So you got something illegal and you knew it but didn't care. We'e all guilty if Axl & Co thinks that the some thousand remaining internet nerds, us, are guilty cause we wanna hear those 'earth-shattering' tracks. I bet that 99% of the people who downloaded these songs will (would...) buy the record, so there was no financial loss. They lost their last pieces of credibility and now it's impossible to believe they don't threat fans like enemies.
They didn't lose any credibility with me because I didn't jump to any conclusions and blame the band for something the FBI and RIAA did.
We all know what happened between MSL and the Axl camp. It's hard to believe they don't have a hand in this theatrical arrest. They wanna frighten the fans, that's it. Last time I checked people uploaded tons of material using their own IP, yet the US prisons aren't full of them. It was a direct action. Anyway, I can be wrong, but their reaction on the official site tells me they're happy with the arrest.
- NY Giants82
- Rep: 26
Re: **Kevin Cogill Who Leaked 9 GnR Songs Arrested Today**
I will try to explain one more time, but some of you, it seems come to this board to not only perpetuate lies, but also to attack the band which you must enjoy, which is implicit in your visitation to this board. Here are the facts:
--GN'R had nothing, nothing to do with this legal matter--besides being ripped off. They did not make the decision to try and get commercial publicity for his website by posting the songs.
--The RIAA (note Wall Street Journal Article) has a team, that had to pursure these instances, due to an agreement they made in 2005 with the record industry.
--Nothing would have happened, had he not been associated with Universal--that opened up liability for Universal, and they have to protect their contracts with other artists.
--This case is not about GN'R, and is about copyright in general--there are thousands of bands involved in this, it's just this self-publicized leak perpetuated a prosectution.
--If you shoot someone, or rob a bank, and then blog about it and publicize it to the world, you give the authorities no choice but to prosecute. The method of his distribution spelled doom.
--Trying, though, to tie GN'R to this, and then to bag on them, is insane, and some psychological disorder, where you express your own personal anger, by displacing it vicariously on something you have no control over. When Japan bombed Pearl Harbor, we did not invade Mexico, because Japan bombed us. Quit attacking GN'R, for something that really, has nothing to do with them besides them being the "house which was randomly robbed". Police don't care who's house was robbed, just that the person who was caught robbing it was prosecuted.
BTW, this is totally different than the Napster-Metallica deal, and you don't see Axl on TV launching an attack against this---it is out of his control. It did not matter whose music this guy leaked, but the way he did it---if this was U2, MIA, whoever, the RIAA contractually had to pursue.
The case represents "the beginning of an effort to be more aggressive," said Kathy Loedler, the RIAA's director of investigations for the western region, adding that the industry wanted to add bite to its existing strategy. "When we tell somebody to just take it down and there's no penalty, there's no arrest, there's no fine, it's very easy for them to continue to do it."
Assistant U.S. Attorney Craig Missakian said the RIAA had alerted the Department of Justice to the case, and he planned to prosecute similar cases as they arose. "We take this type of crime very seriously," he said
.
Best post in this whole thread.
It really sums everything up. I hated when I heard this news cause I knew that some people would incorrectly jump all over GNR over this.
- Bright Eyes 2005
- Rep: 27
Re: **Kevin Cogill Who Leaked 9 GnR Songs Arrested Today**
russtcb wrote:Mikkamakka wrote:To those who claim the guy deserved what he got, it was stolen property etc... Have you guys downloaded these leaks? Cause you surely knew it was copyrighted AND stolen material. So you got something illegal and you knew it but didn't care. We'e all guilty if Axl & Co thinks that the some thousand remaining internet nerds, us, are guilty cause we wanna hear those 'earth-shattering' tracks. I bet that 99% of the people who downloaded these songs will (would...) buy the record, so there was no financial loss. They lost their last pieces of credibility and now it's impossible to believe they don't threat fans like enemies.
They didn't lose any credibility with me because I didn't jump to any conclusions and blame the band for something the FBI and RIAA did.
We all know what happened between MSL and the Axl camp. It's hard to believe they don't have a hand in this theatrical arrest. They wanna frighten the fans, that's it. Last time I checked people uploaded tons of material using their own IP, yet the US prisons aren't full of them. It was a direct action. Anyway, I can be wrong, but their reaction on the official site tells me they're happy with the arrest.
No, this one was out of GNR's hands. That is a fact, that is missed by 70% of you here. This was the RIAA, acting under an agreement with the record labels. Moreover, once the guy said he did it, the Fed's had no choice to prosecute--GNR had no say whatsoever in this, and most likely did not know he was going to be prosecuted, until the Fed's informed him they were. Again, quit attacking the band for something they had not part in. What's next, are you going to attack someone who's house was robbed, because their house was robbed, and the thief then self-publicized the event online and was subsequently arrested?
The case represents "the beginning of an effort to be more aggressive," said Kathy Loedler, the RIAA's director of investigations for the western region, adding that the industry wanted to add bite to its existing strategy. "When we tell somebody to just take it down and there's no penalty, there's no arrest, there's no fine, it's very easy for them to continue to do it."
Assistant U.S. Attorney Craig Missakian said the RIAA had alerted the Department of Justice to the case, and he planned to prosecute similar cases as they arose. "We take this type of crime very seriously," he said.
Re: **Kevin Cogill Who Leaked 9 GnR Songs Arrested Today**
yeah from the look of things this is outside the gnr realm of influence
its a good album for the RIAA to use as an example too...because it is such a mythical album...and alot of money has been invested into it
though what if the leaks he posted arent gonna be on the album as has been suggested? then what? all of a sudden he has leaked material which will not appear on an official release...it'll be no different then the alt cuts of lies that appeared a couple years ago
