buzzsaw wrote:

You guys are way too caught up in the soap opera and not really paying attention to what's actually happening, which is very little.

All of you that hate trump will be begging for him back when Pence is in charge. For all of his social media faults, things are going fine.  You're so focused on stuff that doesn't matter.

I'm not sure what you're trying to say here...

I should be more focused on the nothing that is happening? I should be more appreciative of the fact that Trump is incapable of getting anything done?

Are you saying I should be paying more/less attention to the fact that Trump insults the very people he is asking to support/help his agenda?

I do hate Trump and I'll continue to do so...one thing's for sure though...if Pence becomes president he'll be nearly impossible to elect in 2020. No one came out to vote for Pence in 2016 except maybe a few Indianans. It'll be similar to Gerald Ford in the mid-1970s.

I agree...Pence is a POS hypocrite religious conservative.

If/when u plan ur train trip ... touch base ... maybe we can meet up somewhere around toronto area and have dinner or a couple drinks

buzzsaw wrote:

So here's my take on politics in general.  This is probably going to be a long post...I apologize in advance.

Maybe it's because I was young and naive, but when I was a kid, it seemed like the two parties worked together for the most part for the 3 years and only really duked it out in presidential election years.  Carter is the first president I actually have a memory of; Reagan I remember much better (to give some perspective on the timeframe).  Maybe they didn't really work together, but it seemed like they did to me.  They certainly don't anymore.  It's us against them on both sides of the aisle.

For this system to work, the balance is important.  Most of the people I know are fiscal conservatives and social liberals on some level.  Some lean more one direction or the other, but I don't personally know anyone that at least advertises that they are far left or far right.  The country won't survive if we push too far in either direction.  We can't afford to be too liberal because the math doesn't work.  Most liberals even know that being truly liberal isn't possible.  Conversely we don't need the conservatives telling everybody what they can and can't do in their bedrooms (for example).  We have to be in the middle somewhere, and most people know that.  So when we get too far in either direction, the normal process is that it swings back in the other direction.  The further we go in one direction, the further we seem to bounce back the other direction.  The more in the middle we can stay, I think it's best for all involved.

So how do we get to a place where the gov't works for us again?  Is a third party needed to force people to work together to get a majority?  Not sure...I know some countries have other parties and it's not always a better situation from the little I follow.  I really don't know what the answer is tbh.   Most people reside in the middle somewhere, but nobody represents us.  That seems impossible, but that's how it is.

I think Trump is a product of a couple things.  One is Clinton and Bernie were both bozos and the republican candidates weren't any better.  In addition to that, he was a real beacon of change...he's an outsider that won't play by the rules.  In some ways that is great, but in others we're getting what we deserve for electing him.  I don't understand why people are so scared of him.  I completely get not liking him, but people are genuinely scared of him as though he can actually do something.  The truth is he really can't do anything on his own, and certainly not something like nuking NK.  There's too much fear mongering going on that is directing attention away from reality and making things a circus.  Maybe that's appropriate since so many politicians are clowns.

I have other thoughts, but this is either going to start a discussion as I am interested in other's thoughts or it's going to be ignored because it's too long.  Where did we lose cooperation?  Did we ever have it?  Can we get it back?  Do we want to get it back or do we feed off of the chaos?

Don't have time to respond in length, but wanted to acknowledge this post and hope to discuss this topic.

I grew up around the same time as you based on your timeline, and I really think it started with the 1992 election of Bill Clinton and then Newt Gingrich responding with the Contract With America in 1994. The Clintons were shady, and the GOP went full-force with the investigations, then crazy rumors sprung up around that. Clinton gets impeached, and it's been downhill ever since. Both sides have fueled it.

Guys like Richard Lugar, John McCain, Joe Biden, Jack Kemp, they all used to reach across the aisle and work on stuff. Those days are gone. The middle is gone.