Chinese Whispers - The Secret History of the New Studio Album

sic.

Whatever can be said of Chinese Democracy, the man himself spoke the greatest truth of them all.

To say the making of this album has been an unbearably long and incomprehensible journey would be an understatement. - W. Axl Rose

The lofty goal of Chinese Whispers is to document this journey as well as possible with whatever factual information available. This has meant spending long hours going through various articles, message board posts and other tidbits to place every other comment into proper context; what year were the people interviewed involved, and how do their opinions correspond with the stage at which both the band and the album were at that point.

While it tries hard to provide answers, it does not attempt to serve as the absolute truth on all things GNR following the Use Your Illusion world tour. What it does offer, however, are interesting snapshots in time which illustrate Axl and his crew laboring over a myriad of songs with various producers, hoping to complete their work to a satisfying degree, only to find release plans foiled time and again for reasons that often remain undisclosed to this day.

It is a tale of madness, obsession and creative endeavor of gigantic proportions. While the light in which the core players are represented may not always be flattering towards them, one thing is certain: everyone involved tried very hard to make the best album possible, despite almost unsurmountable pressure from the record company, the music press and most importantly, the long-suffering fanbase.

At the end of the day, the music will speak for itself. However, as the story behind the music has no equal in the history of rock, Chinese Whispers will hopefully provide with some entertainment value while waiting for that Best Buy exclusive and Axl Rose's own, unabridged account of what truly happened.

This is not the truth.

This is the story as we know it so far.

Click any link for the events of the said year.

1993 1994 1995 1996
1997 1998 1999 2000

2001 2002 2003 2004
2005 2006 2007 2008

Randall Flagg

this is really awesome stuff, but the links for 2004-2007 are not working

supaplex

sic. you're sick. you're like a walking gnr encyclopedia.

thanks a lot for this.

sic.

Randall Flagg wrote:

this is really awesome stuff, but the links for 2004-2007 are not working

Make sure you're logged in when clicking the links. There's apparently a glitch which makes 04-07 inaccessible for guests.

supaplex wrote:

sic. you're sick. you're like a walking gnr encyclopedia.

It didn't happen overnight. The bulk of the research goes back for years, though I only got around to putting it all together with the recent revamp of Evo.

James and Will were ready to give it a home it needed; without them, this would've never happened.

supaplex

sic. wrote:

Randall Flagg wrote:
this is really awesome stuff, but the links for 2004-2007 are not working
Make sure you're logged in when clicking the links. There's apparently a glitch which makes 04-07 inaccessible for guests.

nope. it shows this message: Bad request. The link you followed is incorrect or outdated

might be because of the changing of the servers

sic. wrote:

supaplex wrote:
sic. you're sick. you're like a walking gnr encyclopedia.
It didn't happen overnight. The bulk of the research goes back for years, though I only got around to putting it all together with the recent revamp of Evo.
James and Will were ready to give it a home it needed; without them, this would've never happened.

i didn't say it happened overnight, only giving you props for all the work you've done. also not trying to take credit from other people. great job, once again.

bazgnr

I'm logged in, and still can't access the 04-07 links. That said, I've spent most of the day reading the previous years. What an amazing compilation of information. Thanks for all that!

Furbush

i'm only at 1999...
absolutely amazing...
anyone who said"why did it take 15 years?" NEEDS to read this...
thank you

Axlin12

sic is the fuckin' man when it comes to this.

Kudos

sic.

Will told me the 04-07 links have been fixed now.

It was a bug which never occured to us.

rose22

sic this is some great shit man. what a treat to read all this. thank you for all your hard work and knowledge.

2008 Intentions

Thanks man its a great article

deadsouth

You should have copyrighted the term "chinese whispers"...

http://entertainment.timesonline.co.uk/ … 106291.ece

strat0

yeah you should have...

James Lofton

Nothing wrong with The Times reading GNR Evolution......

the_real_jessica

Journalists don't work hard nowadays do they ?

I still wonder why it takes a school and a diploma.

All one needs is two fingers and the copy/paste in windows.

sic.

My thoughts exactly, Jess, and thank you for your words.

But you ain't seen nothing yet... wink

the_real_jessica

I am glad..

And proud.

And so much and words couldn't describe this month.

November without the rain.

I'm still here, maybe not often, but i'm always somewhere in the shadows.

I wouldn't have missed thE day.

sic.

2008 added.

I'm counting on the fact that Ax won't pull an 11th hour surprise on me. lol

Will

sic wrote:

[..] In mid-December, Classic Rock published an abridged version of Chinese Whispers as a 20-page supplemental booklet for their January 2009 issue. The chronicle which had started as a collection of quotes, mostly from printed sources, had succesfully made the transition to the original medium, becoming a Chinese Democracy article by its own right.

A great collectors item for everyone who spent time at GNRevolution whilst waiting for Chinese Democracy cool

Neemo

i encourage all our new members to check this out if you havent already

julia (babydolls)

Sic, thank you! this section rocks - work be damned, am thoroughly enjoying browsing through this. some incredibly detailed hard work here. thanks again x

sp1at

It is a great read because it truly reflects the complexities behind the making of CD.

LTS

I'm a sucker for convenience and I hate staring at my computer, any chance Chinese Whispers can be put into a single .pdf file for me to either print or put on my iphone?

Stepvhen

^^ How about I just write your Article for you too? I'm guessing Magazine.
Any publication I've heard?

rose22

LTS wrote:

I'm a sucker for convenience and I hate staring at my computer, any chance Chinese Whispers can be put into a single .pdf file for me to either print or put on my iphone?

just read it ya bum. everyone on this board has read it. i read it and have to say it was well worth it. shit, i read it twice.

Axl S

Lay off the guy it's not a ridiculous request. Pretty easy to do.

rose22

it's called a joke. honestly he can read and get enjoyment from it. or you could create a file for him.:)

Aussie

LTS wrote:

I'm a sucker for convenience and I hate staring at my computer, any chance Chinese Whispers can be put into a single .pdf file for me to either print or put on my iphone?

Here you go mate:

http://www.4shared.com/document/Zc4DbDz … h2008.html

Stepvhen

Aussie wrote:

LTS wrote:
I'm a sucker for convenience and I hate staring at my computer, any chance Chinese Whispers can be put into a single .pdf file for me to either print or put on my iphone?
Here you go mate:
http://www.4shared.com/document/Zc4DbDz … h2008.html

144 downloads... in a month??
I think this just became the unofficial EPK for the Chinese Democracy saga

LTS

that's awesome. Dang, Buckethead sure is a strange dude... I saw a video of the 2001 Rock In rio and he had glowing eyes under his mask when they did November Rain. Earlier he danced and played around with nunchucks (however you spell them)

LTS

Who else absolutely loved this? I think it would be awesome if it was expanded from 2008- present

DCK

This has a good basic for a book to tell u the truth.

Stepvhen

This represents the single biggest contribution to the GNR fan community. In a perfect world this history would have been bundled with CD when it came out. It marks just how special that album is.

apex-twin

Aussie wrote:

LTS wrote:
I'm a sucker for convenience and I hate staring at my computer, any chance Chinese Whispers can be put into a single .pdf file for me to either print or put on my iphone?
Here you go mate:
http://www.4shared.com/document/Zc4DbDz … h2008.html

Of course you mean this

http://www.scribd.com/doc/8432795/Chine … -Democracy

jamester

LTS wrote:

Who else absolutely loved this? I think it would be awesome if it was expanded from 2008- present

I agree. time is flying by and with twitter and facebook ron and dj are talking. The band is more in touch with the fans. I think the time between cd release till - well whatevers next happens would be the just as interesting.

axl8302

Really great work, well done!

One thing, this bit makes it sound as though Michael Bland was later hired:

"It took almost a decade, but Axl did eventually hire the black dude."

Also, Frank Ferrer (whom I assume you are referring to) isn't black - he's Cuban.

misterID

tbh, a lot of guys/women recognize that they're black, despite being either Puerto Rican, Brazilian, Cuban, especially if they're raised in America, like Zoe Saldana...

But you're correct, there are some who do not like being called black. I don't think Frank minds. He's from Brooklyn.

DCK

I've yet to meet a black person. They all seem brownish in color to me, just like I'm not really white. I'm more pink...if you ask my wife.

johndivney

wtf

DCK

Just saw this and I must have well drunk when I wrote it. Goddamnit.

Anyway, this thing...as an author. It just reeks of a fucking fantastic fanbased book about this era of GNR.

I can't seem to find a doc or pdf download that works though, anyone willing to help?

cassette tape hiss

this is fucking insane. thankyou

sp1at

For old time sake; from Blabbermouth;

The following report was issued by Gigger at Sp1at.com:

------------------------------------------

After a week of investigating Sp1at.com can exclusively reveal that the unreleased GUNS N' ROSES song "This I Love" was intended to feature in the 1998 film "What Dreams May Come".

Sp1at was originally alerted to the connection between Axl Rose and the film when Dave Dominguez, a producer on the "Chinese Democracy" album in the late '90s, told Sp1at that the song was intended for "some Robin Williams film." Sp1at's intrepid reporter followed this up and soon contacted the office of Dawn Soler, the musical supervisor for the film "What Dreams May Come".

Speaking exclusively to Sp1at on the subject, Dawn Soler said, "Oh, boy, that was a long time ago," and admitted she was unable to recollect how the oppourtunity to work with Axl Rose came along in the first place. She did assure Sp1at that Axl was "really into the film" and even suggested that he "wrote the song for it." However, Sp1at does not believe this to be the case as the song was originally mentioned in 1994 by Axl Rose himself when he described "This I Love" as "the heaviest thing I've ever done." Fans of the band have often speculated that the song was about Dylan, the son of Axl's ex-girlfriend Stephanie Seymour.

As it turned out, the song did not make the final cut of the film, although Dawn Soler insists it was not down to her. She said, "The director was a pill and didn't get how cool it would be." Sp1at has contacted the agent of Vincent Ward, the "pill" of a director, on the issue but they have yet to reply.

Sp1at went back to Dominguez to see if he had any further comments on the song and he went on to say that "it was definitely a love song...very heartfelt, it would have fit perfectly with 'What Dreams May Come'," before adding that the song was "five minutes or more" in length.

It is unlikely that the song remains in the same form as it did in 1998. Howard Karp, who worked on the song in 2000, told Sp1at that it was just him and Axl in the studio at the time and that the song was a "simple, piano ballad." It is also known that Bryan "Brain" Mantia has recorded on the song since joining the band in 2001.

Whether we'll ever get to hear the song "This I Love" is debateable. GUNS N' ROSES' "Chinese Democracy" album has been in the works for around seven years but is at present set for a "mid-year release," according to an industry source. However had Mr. Ward followed the advice of Dawn Soler, then "This I Love" would be a seven-year-old track rather than another myth in the world of GUNS N' ROSES.

------------------------------------------------------------

Axlin12

I think someone found an excerpt which sounded alot like an early rough demo instrumental of This I Love being played as an intro to November Rain during one of the 1992 shows (I think Seattle).

Whether it was an instrumental diddy that Axl was working on and the lyrics turned into a ballad towards the Seymours or not, the song was VERY obvious a painful unrequited love song towards his lost family, and not a solely sculpted 'Main Theme' for "What Dreams May Come".

Will

Unstickied as Whispers has been promoted to the main menu for easier access. You can also find a permanent link on the Chinese Democracy page in the GNR Discography.

monkeychow

Every time I re-look at this I'm amazed at the effort and skill in it. Congrats.

Someone should compile a similar work for Chinese 2 - there's still the odd reference to unheard music in interviews and so on.

Furbush

Also... Some of the cool pictures are gone.

Such as the bald, bearded Axl from... I think '98... '96?

But, yeahhh... Flipping through this again, I'm still in awe. And a Chinese 2 dossier is definitely needed.

emcitymisfit

Furbush wrote:

Also... Some of the cool pictures are gone.
Such as the bald, bearded Axl from... I think '98... '96?
But, yeahhh... Flipping through this again, I'm still in awe. And a Chinese 2 dossier is definitely needed.

This one?

apex-twin

...Or this one?

One more and we'll have a line

Furbush

apex-twin wrote:

http://img44.imageshack.us/img44/4598/axl1996zl2.jpg
...Or this one?

One more and we'll have a line

Bingo...

Thanks, bro.

Sky Dog

the arizona jail picture is fuckin classic....first pic to emerge during that time and it is a mugshot...you can't make this shit up!

RaZor

This is a great article. I’ve been obsessing over GNR and CD lately, surfing the web quite a bit, and this is by far the best thing I’ve come across. Thanks much.

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