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#1111 Re: The Garden » US Politics Thread » 449 weeks ago
The other thing is that we're only considering one dimension of the problem here....but I think it's time to be very honest with ourselves.
It appears that law enforcement goes to great lengths to identify the causation/co-relation factors that can predict these types of things happening. There is a definite psychological aspect here and while not everything has been pinpointed yet...I think it's safe to say there are a fair amount of predictive elements.
I also think it's safe to say that these shootings are a symptom of a much larger societal problem..and I wouldn't mind going even farther and say that our culture is sick. Not sick in a cool way or sick in a stupid way. Society and our culture has a tumor on it. Sometimes tumors can be treated...sometimes they can't.
I can't help but think that these mass shootings are a symptom, and you can't cure something by only treating the symptom.
That's been my point all along. You can't fix this or stop this with gun laws. Any actual solution has to be way deeper than that and that's a slippery slope too. Predicting this is also impossible. Are you going to lock up all mental patients just in case? Where do you draw the line?
If we want freedom, there are costs that go along with that. The only ways to limit this are huge impositions on personal rights.
#1112 Re: The Garden » US Politics Thread » 449 weeks ago
buzzsaw wrote:I'm hardly a gun advocate, I'm a realist. Everything everyone says makes total since in imagination land, but doesn't work in reality. There are some things you just can't stop without intelligence that it's going to happen ahead of time. That is reality. You have to accept it before you can even begin to have meaningful discussions about anything. Everything now is just gun control freaks taking advantage of a horrible situation for political gain.
Surely, as a realist, you agree these bump stocks can be banned tomorrow & you have no problem with it, correct?
What are you accomplishing by doing it? I'm not at all for doing something to say we did something. Explain what this fixes to prevent this from happening in the future.
#1113 Re: The Garden » US Politics Thread » 449 weeks ago
See, this is what I hate. Repubs & gun rights advocates play a "Well let's hear your solutions?" game. Then, when you bring up a few possible suggestions off the top of your head that maybe with some tweaking or looking into, could have a nominal impact. But all you get in return is 'That won't work'. 'That wouldn't have stopped this situation' or 'Thats a waste of time & money'.
Its called brainstorming, and the first rule of brainstorming is not to reject someones suggestion, because it could inevitably led to a greater suggestion. But thats what they do. In return however, we got a Muslim ban???! When told that wouldn't have prevented any shootings nor 9/11, we get "Well its a start & needed to be done".
Flagg, you posted no other ammendments have a 25 year age restriction & what would it have done? I think most other shootings were by those under 25 IIRC, and car insurance rates tend to drop drastically once one hits 25, plus Obamacare people can stay on parents plans until they're 26, so it can be done. Plus I think trust funds can be written so kids cannot touch it until they're 25. Things like that. Again, it could be a start, mix it in with backgrounds checks, waiting periods, a ban on assault rifles & modification kits, and a limit as to how many high powered assault rifles one can have, or a registration of high powered guns etc and you're getting somewhere on this. Yeah, this has nothing to do with owning a pistol for defense. Although you look at the idiot George Zimmerman & alot of people think its grounds for winning a fight that they started but can't win otherwise, but I digress.
I'm surprised a civil lawsuit has never been filed from any of these, but I think Newtown they tried. It's very common for bars to be sued in DUI cases, but I guess never the beer manufacturer. They should sue the sellers & makers of that stock clip modification.
I'm hardly a gun advocate, I'm a realist. Everything everyone says makes total since in imagination land, but doesn't work in reality. There are some things you just can't stop without intelligence that it's going to happen ahead of time. That is reality. You have to accept it before you can even begin to have meaningful discussions about anything. Everything now is just gun control freaks taking advantage of a horrible situation for political gain.
#1114 Re: The Garden » US Politics Thread » 449 weeks ago
buzzsaw wrote:I choose to live in the real world. Still waiting for a solution Mr imaginary world...
You're both missing the point. Solutions are brought up every single time this happens. Powerless men, willing to accept the murder of little children on an almost daily basis, always argue against solutions with pre-packaged NRA talking points. They resort to semantics, false equivalency and circular logic.
I've never owned a gun, never been to nra.com or whatever it is, don't follow anything NRA in social media, never been to a convention, etc. There are no talking points here, just reality. You don't have any actual answers, so instead of admitting that, you go on the attack. It's a tired game I have no interest in playing with you. Offer up or shut the fuck up you shithead.
#1115 Re: The Garden » US Politics Thread » 449 weeks ago
buzzsaw wrote:I don't even own a gun and never have you shit. Answer the fucking questions about your solution or get the fuck out of here.
I never said you owned a gun. I said you were a weak apologist. 600 people shot and here you are....
I choose to live in the real world. Still waiting for a solution Mr imaginary world...
#1116 Re: The Garden » US Politics Thread » 449 weeks ago
buzzsaw wrote:You're comparing apples and oranges but that's not surprising. We can't even stop people from coming into this country but you think a gun ban will stop bad guys from getting whatever they want? Very naive.
Still waiting for your solution btw...
Same old tired arguments from the same old tired apologists.
I don't even own a gun and never have you shit. Answer the fucking questions about your solution or get the fuck out of here.
#1117 Re: The Garden » US Politics Thread » 449 weeks ago
Smoking Guns wrote:Why has Australia's mass shootings dropped dramatically?? Can we not admit we have a fucking problem??? Jesus Christ, 600 people just got shot and you guys say nothing can be done.
Pistols ok
Shotguns ok
Hunting rifle ok
AR 15 with 100 round mag and a bump stock is NOT OKAYcan we at least admit this simple shit?
It's been shown over and over again. More guns = more deaths by guns. Less guns = less death by guns.
600 people shot and "nothing we can do about it." Give me a break.
You're right. Australia absolutely did it.
You're comparing apples and oranges but that's not surprising. We can't even stop people from coming into this country but you think a gun ban will stop bad guys from getting whatever they want? Very naive.
Still waiting for your solution btw...
#1118 Re: The Garden » US Politics Thread » 449 weeks ago
buzzsaw wrote:Smoking Guns wrote:Oh back to the "let's do nothing so let's make it real easy for him just to mow down people or else he would have to use a semi auto or a knife or something that wouldn't kill as many"
He had explosives that could have killed more. Please let's operate in reality. People were going to die. A lot of them. Nothing would have changed that.
Yet, he chose the gun. Interesting.
Maybe he flipped a coin or played red/black on roulette to decide. Who cares? End result is the same.
#1119 Re: The Garden » US Politics Thread » 449 weeks ago
buzzsaw wrote:Smoking Guns wrote:Why has Australia's mass shootings dropped dramatically?? Can we not admit we have a fucking problem??? Jesus Christ, 600 people just got shot and you guys say nothing can be done.
Pistols ok
Shotguns ok
Hunting rifle ok
AR 15 with 100 round mag and a bump stock is NOT OKAYcan we at least admit this simple shit?
What's the point? The guy that wants to kill people is still going to get whatever you make illegal. You have to take a realistic approach to life, not a fairy tale one.
Oh back to the "let's do nothing so let's make it real easy for him just to mow down people or else he would have to use a semi auto or a knife or something that wouldn't kill as many"
He had explosives that could have killed more. Please let's operate in reality. People were going to die. A lot of them. Nothing would have changed that.
#1120 Re: The Garden » US Politics Thread » 449 weeks ago
buzzsaw wrote:Ban whatever you want; absolutely nothing changes. If all guns were made illegal today, it would be decades before any noticeable decrease in availability happened. And we know that will and can never happen. Bad guys will ALWAYS have access to guns. All you can control is the few that would turn their's in.
Why has Australia's mass shootings dropped dramatically?? Can we not admit we have a fucking problem??? Jesus Christ, 600 people just got shot and you guys say nothing can be done.
Pistols ok
Shotguns ok
Hunting rifle ok
AR 15 with 100 round mag and a bump stock is NOT OKAYcan we at least admit this simple shit?
What's the point? The guy that wants to kill people is still going to get whatever you make illegal. You have to take a realistic approach to life, not a fairy tale one.
