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#1141 Re: The Garden » Covid 19 » 313 weeks ago
Randall Flagg wrote:TheMole wrote:Some interesting data from the University of Glasgow. On average, the number of years lost per corona victim so far is 13 years for men and 11 years for women. Of course, given the speed at which research into corona is being released means that these aren't properly peer reviewed reports, but it is the first time scientific research has been done on this topic.
I, personally, find it ethically defendable to sacrifice a certain bit of economic growth to save the lives of people who on average still have about 12 years to live.
Average age of a death to COVID in my state is 79. Average life expectancy in the US 78.5. So people dying by me don't have 12 years left. As around 80% of fatalities in the US are occurring in nursing homes, I don't think that metric would apply here, and I'm curious how the Scots came to that conclusion. I know if I was 80, I'd want 12 more years in a nursing home. How much "economic growth" are you willing to sacrifice? 33% unemployment? How many homes need to be lost and life savings drained so your 80 year old grandmother gets 12 more years in a nursing home? I'm curious where your cutoff is?
I know where the cut off for you is...I think you have an extremely high threshold to death. I just hope you sing the same tune if/when it directly affects you. I'm going to guess you won't.
What does this mean? Are you hoping I lose an elderly family member? I thought you said we all deserved this for not voting for Clinton. It doesn't matter that we're still handling it 2nd in the world to Germany (who isn't counting cancer deaths as COVID), you have some invalidated opinion that something was done wrong, but you slink away when pressed for specifics. The others are like you in this regard. They refuse to acknowledge that all things considered, the US did a fantastic job, and they can't point to where it should have been done differently.
It's pathetic and sad that you honestly believe that "protecting" your 80 year old relative in a nursing home (and notice you never define protection - you'll ignore this as you do everything that forces you to think) warrants the complete and utter destruction of the world economy. So if if something can possibly harm me, I should inflict greater harm onto the masses? This is your expectation. I've lost friends and family to gunshots, and my opinion of firearm ownership hasn't changed. What an anti-intellectual position to take and so so selfish. When you lose your house in 6 months, will (insert undefined protection measure) be worth it? Will we have deserved this too?
Can you explain what was done wrong, and what we should be doing? How the US is still #2 in the world behind a country that isn't counting every person who died who may have been infected by COVID, a bad thing? Do you have any idea at all or are you content to continue to be ignorant and link a news headline that affirms your opinion without determining the underlying evidence?
#1142 Re: The Garden » Covid 19 » 313 weeks ago
TheMole wrote:Some interesting data from the University of Glasgow. On average, the number of years lost per corona victim so far is 13 years for men and 11 years for women. Of course, given the speed at which research into corona is being released means that these aren't properly peer reviewed reports, but it is the first time scientific research has been done on this topic.
I, personally, find it ethically defendable to sacrifice a certain bit of economic growth to save the lives of people who on average still have about 12 years to live.
Let me just save everyone the time and post the inevitable response:
"These are people with nothing left to offer society, are someone's grandma who's been put into a home that people haven't visited in 10 years, are being supported by the government and therefore have forfeited their right to live in the greatest country in the world."
Do you have any current information to back up your numbers, especially as they compare to historical averages where no action was taken? Or is the fear you had on March 15th still driving you?
#1143 Re: The Garden » Covid 19 » 313 weeks ago
Some interesting data from the University of Glasgow. On average, the number of years lost per corona victim so far is 13 years for men and 11 years for women. Of course, given the speed at which research into corona is being released means that these aren't properly peer reviewed reports, but it is the first time scientific research has been done on this topic.
I, personally, find it ethically defendable to sacrifice a certain bit of economic growth to save the lives of people who on average still have about 12 years to live.
Average age of a death to COVID in my state is 79. Average life expectancy in the US 78.5. So people dying by me don't have 12 years left. As around 80% of fatalities in the US are occurring in nursing homes, I don't think that metric would apply here, and I'm curious how the Scots came to that conclusion. I know if I was 80, I'd want 12 more years in a nursing home. How much "economic growth" are you willing to sacrifice? 33% unemployment? How many homes need to be lost and life savings drained so your 80 year old grandmother gets 12 more years in a nursing home? I'm curious where your cutoff is?
#1144 Re: The Garden » Covid 19 » 314 weeks ago
#1145 Re: The Garden » Covid 19 » 314 weeks ago
Woodstock occurred during a pandemic. Interesting numbers...1 mil dead worldwide, 100K in the US. Nothing closed, no social distancing.
But we know beyond question that COVID-19 deaths would be exponentially higher if not for social distancing. I can’t provide any evidence of this, but a lot of people paid to be on television are telling me it’s true. My brother was on a ventilator, unconscious with a morphine drip from stage 4 colorectal cancer. It was like an elephant’s trunk hanging out of his ass. Anyway, he got covid and died last week. So chalk up another victim of corona.
I’m sure you’d point out that the US population was only 200 million in 1969 and it’s 330 million today. So 133k dying would be less than 100k in 1969. But medical technology is so much better today than it was in 1969. We can save everyone. That’s why I got my HIV vaccine last year. I’m sure the coronavirus vaccine will be out in 8 months tops.
I know the only people to quarantine in 1969 went to the moon. But we have to stay locked down and refuse to approach normalcy because there’s nothing we can do to protect the elderly left to die in nursing homes from becoming hives due to the extreme age and compromised immunity of its residents, and then dying.
#1146 Re: The Garden » Covid 19 » 314 weeks ago
https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/08/us/socia … index.html
CNN says enforcing the lockdown is racist.
https://www.cnn.com/world/live-news/cor … 86069eb5f5
CNN says black and Hispanic populations are significantly more represented in infections relative to population.
Can you connect the dots?
#1147 Re: The Garden » Covid 19 » 314 weeks ago
#1148 Re: The Garden » Covid 19 » 314 weeks ago
https://www.yahoo.com/news/new-yahoo-ne … 52222.html
I find this fascinating. Over half the country feels we're opening up too soon. But almost half the country says they won't get a vaccine if it ever comes out. This is fear plain and simple, and it shouldn't be confused with intelligent thought.
#1149 Re: The Garden » Covid 19 » 314 weeks ago
buzzsaw wrote:How do you STILL not understand that it's GOOD that people (especially healthy people) get infected. Immunology. Seriously. Read about it...it's important.
People are going to get it unless you keep them locked down forever.
What if the death rate drops significantly as it gets hot out? Like, hot hot. Then, what if a vaccine is crafted in September or October? You're idea of letting a million folks just die will like awfully amatuerish.
Who said anything about a million folks dying? The death rate is going to drop significantly when the it gets hot out. The science from the CDC says exactly that. The covid virus dies very quickly in hot, humid environments and in high UV light. You have no reason to believe a vaccine will be created, let alone a vaccine that can be issued to 330 million people in a reasonable time line. How many trillions should the US goverment print so that people can stay home and collect 52k a year in UE benefits?
#1150 Re: The Garden » Covid 19 » 314 weeks ago
Consider this, everyone goes to the supermarket, mall, bars, gym etc en masse. Then, the supermarket. It's definitely going to spread, right? Like, alot of people. Like 30%-50% of the public. Then, the elderly, 60 & up, go to the supermarket, gas station, little things, and catch it. Suddenly the amount of elderly who catch it grows exponentially.
So yeah, a 38 year old may not die from it, or show symptoms, but the infection rate & death rate of those susceptible will increase drastically. It's like someone here said (Mole, Atari?), You people complaining after the shutdown are like people who got thru the 80s & 90s saying "I should've never bothered to wear a condom".
Every other country on the planet, except Sweden, shut down. Why do you all take such issue with it? I'm not saying close for the year, I'm saying the shutdown was the right thing to do. if you have issue with it, blame trump not me.
Everyone is going to the supermarket. That didn't change. I don't know what grocery delivery time is in Philly, but in Pittsburgh there's a 2 week wait and no guarantee of items. So for the past 8 weeks, i've put on my mask and gone to Giant Eagle once a week. Just like everyone else on this side of the state. It's the only time I've left my home to be in public (I bought a new Challenger right before the lockdown, so it's been my only "safe" hobby) in the past 2 months. The elderly are going too. All stores around here open an hour early for the elderly and healthcare professionals. My friend's 85 year old FIL just got stopped in Ohio at an Advanced Auto because someone in the store tested positive for COVID, and the health authority showed up to lock it down. He was detained for 4 hours. Why the fuck was an 85 year old man out an about in an Advanced Auto you ask? His answer was he's 85 and he's not going to stay locked inside until he dies.
I don't take issue with the lockdown. I've supported and participated in it since day one. No one knew what the virus was capable of, how it was transmitted, and who it affected. Remember when they were saying it had a 5% mortality rate? Then 2%? We now know it's closer to .2 or .3%, and that's with fuzzy math counting ailments that wipe out 85k elderly a year. My issue is with the idea of an indefinite lockdown that is dependent on the idea some vaccine will be created - a vaccine that has never been created for any coronavirus. The idea of sitting on our asses while the world collapses and the inevitable home loss and collapse of half of our businesses is enough to give me pause. If 80% of fatalities occur in nursing homes, shouldn't that be the focus of our efforts. If 22% of people dying are obese with high blood pressure, shouldn't people on high blood pressure apply controls rather than all of us?
People are always going to be dying; it's kind of a the only guarantee in life. So we look at what we can do, and how we can mitigate the damage to vulnerable populations. If that means armed security and tests of medical personnel at nursing homes, so be it. But we can't be locked down in August hoping for some miracle vaccine that no one knows if it can be created, let alone effective (the virus is mutating like every other virus and could be as unstable as the flu) because 1% of elderly people in nursing homes might die.
