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#1291 Re: The Garden » US Politics Thread » 489 weeks ago
but...but...BENGHAZI!!!!! and....and.........E-MAILS!!!!!
Hillary was right, Trump is a puppet. Putin played him like a first class stooge.
Obama just put him in check with this move as well. Is Trump now going to take office and snuggle back up with Putin after our intelligence community just told him he was involved with election tampering and Obama purged 35 Russian goons? Trump brushed it off for weeks and weeks and now he can no longer deny it. Lets watch as Trump cozies back up to his Russian pals and his supporters just shrug it off. What a bunch of first rate clowns: Trump, his Fox News apologists and his supporters. Obama was right, Reagan would be rolling over in his grave right now.
#1292 Re: The Garden » US Politics Thread » 489 weeks ago
How Trump Made Russia's Hacking More Effective
It was the president-elect’s hyperbolic characterizations of the pilfered material that turned routine documents into the stuff of scandal.
“It’s all just an attempt to delegitimize Donald Trump.” That’s the argument you hear from Trump supporters each time new information comes to light about how hard Russian spy services worked to damage Hillary Clinton. You heard it again on Thursday.
The Trump supporters are 100 percent right: The information is delegitimizing. The president-elect of the United States reportedly owes his office in considerable part to illegal clandestine activities in his favor conducted by a hostile, foreign spy service. It’s hard to imagine a crisis of presidential legitimacy more extreme than that. But that’s no argument against airing this information. It’s precisely why the information must be aired.
Vladimir Putin took a fearful risk. If the Electoral College had taken a slightly different bounce on November 8, Putin would now be facing an enraged President-elect Hillary Clinton. Putin had every reason to expect that he probably would end up facing a President Clinton. Yet he took the gamble anyway, apparently doing something none of his Soviet predecessors had ever dared to do: mount a clandestine espionage and disinformation campaign on behalf of one candidate for U.S. president, and against another.
The word “clandestine” is the key term here. In every election, foreign governments have their preferred candidates. It was no secret in 2004 that America’s French and German allies hoped George W. Bush would lose, or that Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu felt the same way about President Obama in 2012. Those allies made their wishes known through the familiar and lawful method of grumbling to sympathetic American journalists about the awfulness of the incumbent administration. What they did not do was organize their spy agencies to break the law of the United States. But that is evidently what Russia did—and it seems to have worked.
Obama pledged today that before he leaves office, the American people will learn more fully how the Russians did it.
This will be important to know. But there is something else important to keep in mind.
The content of the Russian-hacked emails was actually remarkably unexplosive. Probably the biggest news was that Hillary Clinton had expressed herself in favor of a hemispheric common market in speeches to Wall Street executives. Otherwise, we learned from them that some people at the Democratic National Committee favored a lifelong Democrat for their party’s nomination over a socialist interloper who had joined the party for his own convenience. We learned that many Democrats, including Chelsea Clinton, disapproved of the ethical shortcomings of some of the people in Bill Clinton’s inner circle. We learned that Hillary Clinton acknowledged differences between her “public and private” positions on some issues. None of this even remotely corroborated Donald Trump’s wild characterizations of the Russian-hacked, Wikileaks-published material.
Without Trump’s own willingness to make false claims and misuse Russian-provided information, the Wikileaks material would have deflated of its own boringness. The Russian-hacked material did damage because, and only because, Russia found a willing accomplice in the person of Donald J. Trump.
Many questions remain about how the Russian spy services did what they did. That includes Putin’s motives for ordering the operation. But on issues from Crimea to Syria to NATO to the breakup of the European Union, Trump’s publicly expressed views align with Putin’s wishes.
Over Trump’s motives for collaborating so full-throatedly with Russian espionage, there hangs a greater and more disturbing mystery—a mystery that Trump seems in no hurry to dispel. And maybe he is wise to leave the mystery in place: as delegitimizing as it is, it’s very possible the truth would be even worse.
DAVID FRUM is a senior editor at The Atlantic and the chairman of Policy Exchange. In 2001-2002, he was a speechwriter for President George W. Bush.
#1293 Re: The Garden » US Politics Thread » 489 weeks ago
Give me a break. Trump wrapped himself in the racist conspiracy theory that Obama wasn't born in America for 6 years, never admitted he was wrong, and never apologized. And that's just ONE of the many things he said about our President.
Obama said he could have won a third term and the GOP says he's "Undermining" Trump. Boo hoo hoo, cry me a river.
#1294 Re: The Sunset Strip » The BEST VOICES of the HISTORY » 489 weeks ago
#1295 Re: The Garden » US Politics Thread » 491 weeks ago
The intelligence community now says Putin was behind the hacking of our general election. Of course with zero evidence to back his claims, Trump says it's preposterous that Russia did anything. "Could be anybody" he says.
So here we have a new president elect who admires Putin, the man who helped get him elected by via a massive hacking network and who alongside Iran/Assad have slaughtered hundreds of thousands of Syrians. Yet you guys are still pissed off about "safe spaces", which bathrooms transsexuals use and gush daily at how charismatic Trump appears to be.
Only some of the GOP seem concerned about any of this...I find this unconscionable.
#1296 Re: The Garden » US Politics Thread » 491 weeks ago
If only these "Closer Look" segments would have alerted the public to the problems with Obamacare or Black Lives Matters or Immigration. People see what they want to see. None of you were on this forum or any other bitching about the millions who were financially impacted when their premiums rose and could no longer afford insurance. None of you said "Hey, wait a minute" when Obama decided to let mentally ill people join the military who will never be combat ready because their medication and counseling prevent them from entering a combat zone. None of you posted any concern when Obama overreached his executive authority and set precedents that you won't enjoy now that Trump can wield that power. None of you were here advocating how wrong Reid using the nuclear option in 2012, but are shitting your pants now that the GOP has total control and can literally remove the DNC from any control of our federal government.
But keep yucking it up with Samantha Bea and Seth Myers. The adults will be making sure Trump doesn't kick start WW3 while correcting a lot of the damage the Obama administration has enabled the past 8 years.
A pivot to the default position: Attacking silence. Dude you're turning into a one trick pony! SAD!
In the meantime you didn't address one bit of the GOP hypocrisy on this segment. Neither did SG. Lofton says he's OK with government involvement in the free market because he's not a typical conservative. But if I cared to use the search feature, I'd bet my Obama phone that he was calling Barack a socialist back in the day...just a hunch.
I don't have to attack silence. I just have address what you guys are actually saying or have said (amazingly the same as Rush, Hannity and any garden variety dope over at Fox)
Obama bailout of auto sector = Socialism
Trump saving 700 jobs via crony capitalism at tax payers expense = STRONG LEADER!!!
#1297 Re: The Garden » US Politics Thread » 492 weeks ago
Just as I said a few days ago...all those deeply rooted conservative beliefs...POOF...all up in smoke. Today the same people who warned us all of socialism under Obama now applaud Trump for government intervention in the private sector. From the right wing media all the way down to posters in this thread.
Of course too his Carrier "deal" isn't much to brag about, but I find the hypocrisy from conservatives to be a much bigger story.
#1298 Re: The Garden » US Politics Thread » 492 weeks ago
His supporters are ignorant knuckle draggers and deserve every bad thing the Pence administration will give them. Trump is playing the rubes, he actually has shown compassion to Hillary outside the moron fests of his rallies. Pence is 100% true blue right wing Christian crazy nut job, and appears to be in full control of the decision making. All the people getting positions are Pence people.
They are going to love the free range Paul Ryan gets to gut Medicare. While all these rubes are shouting about Hillary, they are slowly working on dismantling one of our most important safety nets for seniors. Trump supporters will be doctor shopping with vouchers all while their prostates are protruding out of their asses. They deserve it...the rest of us do not.
Trump said during his entire campaign that Hillary was "crooked" because of her alleged (never found guilty) inability to handle classified material. Then has Petraeus in the running for Secretary of State, who actually pled guilty and is currently still on probation...for mishandling classified material.
Trump and his cohorts bemoaned Hillary's speaking engagements with Goldman Sachs. But guess who Trump's Secretary of Treasury is? Steve Mnuchin from Goldman Sachs.
Trump's charges against Hillary in regards to "crony capitalism" was core in his campaign as well. It should also be noted that this is a fundamental aspect of Republican dogma (especially over the last 8 years.) "Let the chips fall where they may." "Government doesn't create jobs." "Government doesn't pick winners and losers." But what is the first thing President elect Trump does, and the majority of Republicans cheer? He works out a "deal" with Carrier, using their parent company's government contracts as leverage. A deal that costs tax payers over 7 million dollars, although we still do not have all the details. Sure sounds like crony capitalism to me.
Trump also has a trillion dollar infrastructure stimulus in the works. They voted against that for 8 years. Want to guess what happens now that Trump is in the driver's seat?
Trump supporters are either acutely unaware of any of this, or simply don't care. My guess is a little bit of both. What I've seen here more than anything is that Trump can say/do anything, even literally change his stance mid sentence. They could care less. More than that are the conservative values they have claimed to hold so dear. None of that apparently matters anymore either. Carrier is a good example. His supporters don't see any hypocrisy on their end or Trump's. And Trump will use it again and again to show what a deal-maker he is and that he kept his campaign promises. None of the facts will matter, not one bit.
I voted for Kasich but lately he has acted like a little bitch.
I'd say it was the other way around.
Kasich was the only Republican to show backbone and integrity. The rest loathed Trump, but fell in line like cowards rather than possibly alienate any of their constiuents.
#1299 Re: The Garden » US Politics Thread » 493 weeks ago
The market is emotional bullshit. We all know this. Not a real indicator of the economy.
You can't have it both ways then. Either the market reflects a Trump presidency or it does not.
And the Petreus thing I think you're talking about....so all that shit about Hillary's e-mails for years and then this?! He manipulated a bunch of douche bag racists, backed off on most of the things he said he wanted to do as soon as he was elected...and everyone in his base appears ok with this...
The hypocrisy is making it hard to breath in this country. The fickle, fickle American people are getting exactly what they wanted....a smoke and mirrors show.
They don't care about any of this...
Obama saved 1.5 million jobs. GM paid back government + interest.
Trump/Pence saved 800 jobs from going to Mexico for now. 1,300 jobs still going to Mexico where they will be making air conditioners and sending them back into the US with no tariff or outsourcing tax, while Indiana taxpayers pays them $7M for doing it.
What a deal!
They don't care about any of this... Not one bit.
And you better believe that if Obama spent 7 million of tax payer money to save 1000 jobs, they would be a collective right wing freak out. And we still don't know the nitty gritty details yet.
#1300 Re: The Garden » US Politics Thread » 493 weeks ago
Randall Flagg wrote:Our last president got a noble prize for making people feel good before he was even sworn in. This one has raised the DOW to a record high and saved thousands of jobs before he was sworn in. I'll take reality over the hugs any day.
You've gotta be kidding. C'mon Randall, , you know better than that?!! The DOW went UP 12,000 points (after it crashed down 5,000 under W) under Obama the last 8 years. Then it goes up 300 points or something for a day or two and people say "Trump causes DOW to goto its highest ever!!".
He also omitted that the DOW dropped hundreds of points the preceding week on the news of his win. If anything the up/down behavior shows market instability as a reaction to Trump being the President elect.
