You are not logged in. Please register or login.
- Topics: Active | Unanswered
#131 Re: Guns N' Roses » Slash: GNR has not written any new music, everything completed is CD 2 » 217 weeks ago
Where can we read the press release? I couldn't find any mention of it
There was a press release? First I've heard of it...
Here:
#132 Re: Guns N' Roses » Slash: GNR has not written any new music, everything completed is CD 2 » 218 weeks ago
Hard School seems to be an argument they could do whatever they want regarding who gets credit, but if the song goes back to 96 then the likelihood is the original riff is from Slash, so yes who knows indeed. I doubt Dizzy actually wrote anything on it though. This GN'R being a different legal entity to NU GNR might play a part?
I guess if Slash had originally written the riff he would have said so in this interview instead of saying "Axl has all these songs and I wrote my own parts to what else was going on." There's also that press release that says it was written by Axl. It was probably one of the songs Axl was working on and had that studio band (the so-called "shadow band") record in the mid 90s and then Slash left before the then band did anything with them.
I can't imagine what Dizzy might have contributed to it either, but then he also has a credit on I.R.S (he shares 25% with Paul Tobias) - so, again, who knows.
#133 Re: Guns N' Roses » Slash: GNR has not written any new music, everything completed is CD 2 » 218 weeks ago
Do we know for a fact that Pitman did not write anything on Absurd? The riff comes from his instrument so I assume he wrote at least that part. But maybe it's enough for them to just erase his work, cover it and say Slash wrote it? Because I don't see much actual writing Slash did on that track.
[...]
Who knows... There's been speculation that Pitman wrote only the intro, which is gone (and was gone already in the version with Bumblefoot playing over in 2006) - and probably the bridge, which has been shortened enough so that maybe can pass as a sample and not as a proper credit? Dizzy was quoted in early 2006 saying that the (synth) riffs were his:
Dizzy: Umm... it was passed back and forth on our [Dizzy's and Pitman's] computers. yeah.. you know, we do a lot of work now on computers. We pass it back and forth and I had a couple riffs so... yeah [...] It kind of went away. I mean we actually played it a few times live... but... I'm sure it'll up at some point.
Unless the songwriting credits/shares of the former members have somehow been bought out (which doesn't seem to have happened in the case of Josh Freese, based on what he said in his recent interview). I guess we'll have to see. If, for example, Soulmonster is released and the credits are only Axl, Slash and Duff, then it will be this scenario.
#134 Re: Guns N' Roses » Slash: GNR has not written any new music, everything completed is CD 2 » 218 weeks ago
Blackstar wrote:If Absurd and Hard Skool is anything to go by, it looks like they have picked songs that were written mainly by Axl (and/or Dizzy, who is still in the band) and could be redone to such an extent that they wouldn't have to give writing credits to NuGnR members - and, on the other hand, Slash and Duff could get a credit. If that's a pattern (and I think it is) and not just a coincidence, I suppose songs like Atlas and Perhaps fall in the same category, but I don't see how songs that were (instrumentally) written entirely by former members could fit in. Because there couldn't be an album with Slash/Duff and the songwriting credits on ASCAP and the similar databases being all Finck, Buckethead, Stinson, etc. - they can't get away just by putting "written by Guns N' Roses" in the liner notes, as these databases are in the public domain. I also don't think Slash and Duff would have agreed to do it otherwise.
So there may be an album of "leftovers," but not necessarily exactly the same that was intended to be released as "CD2".
The argument against this theory is that the vast majority of instrumentals must have been written by people other than Dizzy and Axl. If Slash says "a bunch of stuff" that suggests more than just a part. And what about Paul? His fingerprints are all over those sessions. Do you think Axl would accept just cutting him out? He's still "a member" of sorts is he not?
I suppose that, say, 3 songs out of 12 where Paul Tobias (or Brain, or Tommy Stinson) would have a credit could be acceptable. But not the other way around.
Aside from Atlas Shrugged and Perhaps, there are songs like Oklahoma, or Nothing (if Axl finished it), or maybe even State of Grace, and probably others that potentially fit in this pattern.
As for Paul Tobias, no one knows what his current status is. I also don't know how big his input was. I always assumed that he co-wrote Hard Skool (which is probably from the batch of songs that originate either from 1995/96 or from the transitional period between "old" and "new" GnR, like Oklahoma, I.R.S., Oh My God and, possibly, State of Grace). But, although the credits for Hard Skool haven't appeared yet on ASCAP, GMR and SESAC, there are credits in the Billboard charts (which, based on other entries, seem accurate) and they are the same as on Absurd, i.e. Axl, Slash, Duff and Dizzy are listed as songwriters.
#135 Re: Guns N' Roses » Slash: GNR has not written any new music, everything completed is CD 2 » 218 weeks ago
If Absurd and Hard Skool is anything to go by, it looks like they have picked songs that were written mainly by Axl (and/or Dizzy, who is still in the band) and could be redone to such an extent that they wouldn't have to give writing credits to NuGnR members - and, on the other hand, Slash and Duff could get a credit. If that's a pattern (and I think it is) and not just a coincidence, I suppose songs like Atlas and Perhaps fall in the same category, but I don't see how songs that were (instrumentally) written entirely by former members could fit in. Because there couldn't be an album with Slash/Duff and the songwriting credits on ASCAP and the similar databases being all Finck, Buckethead, Stinson, etc. - they can't get away just by putting "written by Guns N' Roses" in the liner notes, as these databases are in the public domain. I also don't think Slash and Duff would have agreed to do it otherwise.
So there may be an album of "leftovers," but not necessarily exactly the same that was intended to be released as "CD2".
#136 Re: Guns N' Roses » Hardschool single coming September 24th. » 220 weeks ago
When Axl did the interview with Rolling Stone in late November 1999 (published early Feb. 2000), the title track was already called "Chinese Democracy". It's not clear from the description if any of the songs had vocals yet, but it seems at least some of them had lyrics:
Song after song combines the edgy hard rock force and pop smarts of vintage Guns N Roses with surprisingly modern and ambitious music textures. In addition to the album's almost grungy title track, tentative song titles include ''Catcher in the Rye,'' ''I.R.S,'' ''The Blues'' and ''TWAT,'' which he says stands for ''there was a time.'' Another song, called ''Oklahoma'' - heard tonight only as an instrumental - was inspired by a court date with ex-wife Erin Everly.
#137 Re: Guns N' Roses » Hardschool single coming September 24th. » 220 weeks ago
WOW.
He hadn't started any lyrics/vocals before Freese left?
Unbelievable.
No wonder he left. In other words, it's eerily similar to Moby's quick departure....very interested, ready to get things done, but no movement from Axl caused him to bail out of the project.
It also helps explain why both couldn't go into much detail about the material...there were no real songs at that point.
I'm flabbergasted by the fact he didn't know what Hardschool was...and the only reason he knows Absurd is because he heard it like everyone else in 2001.
The story of Chinese continues to get wackier.
I love the "Smells Like Josh Spirit" story.
I don't know...
We do know for a fact that Beavan recorded the vocals to most of the songs that ended up on CD, including the title track - most, if not all, of the vocals in the Village discs were recorded by Beavan.
Beavan and Freese left around the same time. Freese's contract expired in March 2000. Beavan stayed around for a little while after RTB was brought in by the label (which was in April).
I'm thinking that Freese probably had been de facto out by late 1999 (before his contract expired), as he was preoccupied with APC, so he wasn't there when Axl recorded vocals.
#138 Re: Guns N' Roses » Hardschool single coming September 24th. » 220 weeks ago
Josh Freese on Hard Skool, CD title track and Absurd. 16:00 minute mark:
I have transcribed the quote:
Freese: The only reason I know about the track Hard Skool at all is [that] my publishing company emailed me about it, maybe a week ago or a week-and-a-half ago, and said, “Do you know anything about the song Hard Skool? Did you have anything to do with the writing of it? Because it’s coming out” or “it just came out and we want to know what the splits are.” Because I guess it was done when I was in the studio with them. But we recorded so much material, and after I left they worked on so much stuff post me being there. And it was 20 years ago – over 20 years ago now – that I was there, that… There’s a few things that I really had a big hand in on the writing, for instance the title track, Chinese Democracy; I wrote the music to it. There was a few other songs that had working titles that never ended up on the Chinese Democracy record, but were laying around, and I know that at least when we recorded them 20 years ago, Axl liked them a lot. And once again, when I was there they didn’t have any lyrics yet, so they just had these working titles.
So when Hard Skool came out and I listened to it, I went “God, maybe that is one that I wrote that they’ve since… you know, later put lyrics to.” Like, when I was there in the studio with them, the song Chinese Democracy wasn’t called “Chinese Democracy” yet. I think the working title was “Smells like Josh Spirit,” because I wrote it and the chords were really simple – it’s just like kind of these three chords, over and over and over – and someone at one point goes, “This sounds kind of cool, like a Nirvana riff or something.” So it was titled “Smells Like Josh Spirit,” like up on the board where we had all the songs we were working on. Axl hadn’t written any lyrics to it yet, and that didn’t happen until after I left.
So, once again, when I went, “Okay, Hard Skool, let me listen to that, because maybe that’s what this song turned into or that song turned into,” I listened to it and I didn’t recognize hardly any of it, you know… That being said, maybe I did write some of it (laughs) - I mean, because, once again, it was 22 years ago. But there was two or three things that I brought in where I really wrote the majority of the music and I would definitely recognize instantly. As a matter of fact, before the track started playing, I’m like, “I wonder if it’s going to be this one, or this one, or this one,” because there were a few that were pretty cool that didn’t end up getting used, but that wasn’t one of them. Did they release more stuff or just that one track last week? [Brando mentions Absurd and that it was called Silkworms] Oh yeah. I didn’t have anything to do with that one.
#139 Re: Guns N' Roses » Hardschool single coming September 24th. » 221 weeks ago
monkeychow wrote:Sky Dog wrote:Still adding and deleting layers in 2021. You can’t make this shit up.
But I'm glad we're getting the left over tracks with Slash and Duff...but it does sound like the plan is they just mute the original bass/guitar lines and over dub slash - which is a shame cos songs like Atlas and so on would be awesome but need a rearrangement IMO.
I agree, better this way than none of the stuff. Releasing it this way might also open the possibilities for a Chinese Boxset one day in 2050 with the original players...
Regarding the rearrangement of the songs: Let us not forget that even the Finck/Stinson/Buckethead band could have still rearranged theses recordings from the version we heard. Just look at Silkworms..thanks to the Bumblefoot version we know the structure had been changed before Slash & Duff came on board. And the same thing could have happened with Hard Skool. Maybe the section after the first chorus that was new to us now wasn't something Slash & Duff brought to the table, but was already there with Robin/Bucket or at least with Bumble/DJ... Also in terms of complete vocal tracks, I think we're down to Atlas and Perhaps. By putting vocals on some of the other tracks the song structures could easily have been rearranged by 2004/2006/2008
I think the drums may be a giveaway on whether the arrangement is new or not.
On Hard Skool, even though the structure hasn't changed radically compared to the Village demo, the arrangement is quite different, so they couldn't have kept Josh Freese's drums. And the fact that they didn't use Brain's drum track from a presumed post-Village version either (like they did on Absurd), indicates that the arrangement of the Slash/Duff version is new.
#140 Re: Guns N' Roses » Hardschool single coming September 24th. » 222 weeks ago
Blackstar wrote:I don't visit their merch site often, but the more classic-looking UYI shirts must have been on there for a while - I'm sure I'd seen them listed before the new anniversary merch was added.
They certainly weren’t listed with the 30th anniversary fugly stuff when they made the social media post last week. If they were I probably wouldn’t have complained so much about merch they were selling to celebrate it.
Yes, they definitely weren't listed as part of the anniversary stuff, but they were among the regular shirts they were selling - at least that's what I remember.


