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#201 Re: The Garden » US Politics Thread » 372 weeks ago

If This Isn’t Impeachable, Nothing Is

The president reportedly sought the help of a foreign government against Joe Biden.

The president of the United States reportedly sought the help of a foreign government against an American citizen who might challenge him for his office. This is the single most important revelation in a scoop by The Wall Street Journal, and if it is true, then President Donald Trump should be impeached and removed from office immediately.

Until now, there was room for reasonable disagreement over impeachment as both a matter of politics and a matter of tactics. The Mueller report revealed despicably unpatriotic behavior by Trump and his minions, but it did not trigger a political judgment with a majority of Americans that it warranted impeachment. The Democrats, for their part, remained unwilling to risk their new majority in Congress on a move destined to fail in a Republican-controlled Senate.

Now, however, we face an entirely new situation. In a call to the new president of Ukraine, Trump reportedly attempted to pressure the leader of a sovereign state into conducting an investigation—a witch hunt, one might call it—of a U.S. citizen, former Vice President Joe Biden, and his son Hunter Biden.

As the Ukrainian Interior Ministry official Anton Gerashchenko told the Daily Beast when asked about the president’s apparent requests, “Clearly, Trump is now looking for kompromat to discredit his opponent Biden, to take revenge for his friend Paul Manafort, who is serving seven years in prison.”

Clearly.

If this in itself is not impeachable, then the concept has no meaning. Trump’s grubby commandeering of the presidency’s fearsome and nearly uncheckable powers in foreign policy for his own ends is a gross abuse of power and an affront both to our constitutional order and to the integrity of our elections.

The story may even be worse than we know. If Trump tried to use military aid to Ukraine as leverage, as reporters are now investigating, then he held Ukrainian and American security hostage to his political vendettas. It means nothing to say that no such deal was reached; the important point is that Trump abused his position in the Oval Office.

In this matter, we need not rely on a newspaper account, nor even on the complaint, so far unseen, of a whistle-blower. Instead, we have a sweaty, panicked admission on national television by Trump’s bizarre homunculus, Rudy Giuliani, that he did in fact seek such an investigation on Trump’s behalf. Giuliani later again confirmed Trump’s role, tweeting that a “President telling a Pres-elect of a well known corrupt country he better investigate corruption that affects US is doing his job.”

Let us try, as we always find ourselves doing in the age of Trump, to think about how Americans might react if this happened in any other administration. Imagine, for example, if Bill Clinton had called his friend, Russian President Boris Yeltsin, in 1996, and asked him to investigate Bob Dole. Or if George W. Bush had called, say, President Vicente Fox of Mexico in 2004 and asked him—indeed, asked him eight times, according to The Wall Street Journal—to open a case against John Kerry. Clinton, of course, was eventually impeached for far less than that. Is there any doubt that either man would have been put on trial in the Senate, and likely chased from office?

The Republicans, predictably, have decided to choose their party over their country, and the damage control and lying have begun. Senator Josh Hawley of Missouri, for one, has already floated the reliable “deep-state attack” nonsense that will play well on Fox and other conservative outlets. And while Giuliani did Trump no favors with his incoherent ranting on CNN, he did manage to hammer away at the idea that Biden, and not Trump, tried to shake down the Ukrainians while he was vice president.

The problem for Giuliani, the Republicans, and the president himself, however, is that Biden and his actions are now irrelevant to the offenses committed by Trump. The accusations against Joe Biden are false, as we know from multiple fact checks and from the Ukrainians themselves (which is why I won’t deign to repeat them here). But even to argue over this fable about Biden is to miss the point, because it changes nothing about Trump’s attempts to enmesh Biden in a foreign investigation for Trump’s own purposes.

There is no spin, no deflection, no alternative theory of the case that can get around the central fact that President Trump reportedly attempted to use his office for his own gain, and that he put the foreign policy and the national security of the United States at risk while doing so. He ignored his duty as the commander in chief by intentionally trying to place an American citizen in jeopardy with a foreign government. He abandoned his obligations to the Constitution by elevating his own interests over the national interest. By comparison, Watergate was a complicated judgment call.

In a better time and in a better country, Republicans would now join with Democrats and press for Trump’s impeachment. This won’t happen, of course; even many of Biden’s competitors for the presidency seem to be keeping their distance from this mess, perhaps in the hope that Biden and Trump will engage in a kind of mutually assured political destruction. (Elizabeth Warren, for one, renewed her call for impeachment—but without mentioning Biden.) This is to their shame. The Democratic candidates should now unite around a call for an impeachment investigation, not for Biden’s sake, but to protect the sanctity of our elections from a predatory president who has made it clear he will stop at nothing to stay in the White House.

I am speaking only for myself as an American citizen. I believe in our Constitution, and therefore I must accept that Donald Trump is the president and the commander in chief until the Congress or the people of the United States say otherwise. But if this kind of dangerous, unhinged hijacking of the powers of the presidency is not enough for either the citizens or their elected leaders to demand Trump’s removal, then we no longer have an accountable executive branch, and we might as well just admit that we have chosen to elect a monarch and be done with the illusion of constitutional order in the United States.

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archi … se/598570/

#204 Re: The Garden » US Politics Thread » 372 weeks ago

So the Wall Street Journal reported that Trump told Ukraine that he'd provide the military help they needed, if they could help supply dirt on Joe Biden's son.

Gee, that sure sounds familiar doesn't it? Donald Trump working with a foreign government to find dirt on his political opponent.

His bootlick Rudy Giuliani then goes on live TV to tell everybody that he helped Trump in this endeavor, right after he denied doing it.

The inspector general is a Trump appointee, confirmed by the Senate. Hardly a partisan hack as all the right wing faithful are claiming.

Of course Trump's stooge Barr is blocking the complaint from going to the congressional intelligence committee.

Let's sit back and watch the "conservatives" defend this shit. At what point do you guys get off this Trump train? This is seriously fucked up, just like the dozens and dozens of other insane, illegal and unconstitutional things Trump has done. Impeachment should begin immediately.

#205 Re: The Garden » US Politics Thread » 372 weeks ago

It's a pattern:

The US reportedly pulled a top spy out of Russia after Trump revealed classified information to the Russians in an Oval Office meeting

The United States was forced to extract a top secret source from Russia after President Donald Trump revealed classified information to two Russian officials in 2017, CNN reported.

A person directly involved with the discussions told the outlet the U.S. was concerned that Trump and his administration routinely mishandled classified intelligence and that their actions could expose the covert source as a spy within the Russian government.

Trump stunned the national-security apparatus and intelligence community when it surfaced that he shared the information with Russian foreign minister Sergey Lavrov and then-Russian ambassador to the U.S. Sergey Kislyak at an Oval Office meeting in May 2017.

The meeting took place one day after Trump had fired then-FBI director James Comey, and the president is said to have boasted to the Russians that firing "nut job" Comey had taken "great pressure" off of him. Comey was spearheading the FBI's investigation into Russian interference in the 2016 US election at the time.

Trump then went on to share intelligence with Lavrov and Kislyak connected to the Islamic State in Syria. The information had come from Israel, which had not given the U.S. permission to share it with the Russians because it could have compromised an Israeli source in the region.

Trump's disclosure was not specifically about the Russian spy. But his move to disregard strict intelligence-sharing rules to protect highly placed sources prompted intelligence officials to "renew earlier discussions" about the potential risk that the source would be exposed, CNN reported.

The report said that Mike Pompeo, who was CIA director at the time, told other senior Trump administration officials that too much information was coming out regarding the U.S. asset in Russia.

This is not the first time national-security veterans have expressed concerns that Trump's actions could reveal sensitive information about U.S. intelligence-gathering processes and human sources working abroad.

Late last month, the president took to Twitter to release U.S. military information that he received during a classified intelligence briefing earlier that day.

Trump's tweet immediately set off alarm bells because it included a satellite photo of an Iranian launch pad that was a much higher resolution and better quality than the commercial satellite images of the site that were publicly available.

https://www.businessinsider.com/us-extr … ice-2019-9

#206 Re: The Garden » US Politics Thread » 372 weeks ago

Randall Flagg wrote:

Can we find out what was actually said before the outrage?  It’s not like career officials have lied and exaggerated the past 32 months.

It’s his prerogative as the executive to say what he wants and feels is best. Obama has no problem “agreeing” to the Iran deal despite opposition from his own party and no support from congress. He had no problem telling Russia he’d have more flexibility after the election.  So for me to get upset about whatever Trump might have said, it has to be worse than that. I have a hunch it won’t be, but the left will howl anyway.

Obama! Obama! Boo hoo hoo, Obama!

This has nothing to do with Obama.

Somebody just reported our President to the Intel inspector general. This isn't "oh the other guy did stuff like that too."

#207 Re: The Garden » US Politics Thread » 372 weeks ago

PaSnow wrote:

Supposedly he made a "promise" to a leader on Aug 1w. Around that time theres a list of about 5 leaders he was dealing with, incl Putin & Kim Jung.

He's seemed angry & arrogant lately, and with Bolton leaving just days ago this is not a good look.

I agree it could be partisan, but seems Trump is trying to keep it all under wraps under the veil of national security.

This ain't partisan, it's just not. This is somebody so alarmed (again) by numerous actions that they reported it to the intelligence inspector general.

Pretty big deal....again.

Fox thinks the world is partisan and want all their stupid viewers to believe it, because they are. Trump's actions the last two years can't be insulated by throwing this word around, unless you're a completely useless right wing turd who will defend everything Trump does. Which of course, they do.

#209 Re: Guns N' Roses » How long until The General? » 373 weeks ago

bigbri wrote:

I’m loving these leaks tonight, and I keep asking myself: Why now?

Someone mentioned, I forgot who or where, that we’re getting these now because really new music is coming with Slash and Duff.

These old songs still have some value. I’m guessing by what’s happening that all the old stuff is getting traded and liberated.

The two left that have always interested me over the years are The General and Ides of March. I assume it’s only a matter of time until we get them.

Unless... they are being reworked by the Big Three.

Anyway, a fun time again....

The whole thing seems orchestrated to me...

#210 Re: The Sunset Strip » Eddie Money dead » 373 weeks ago

James wrote:

What a legend. A few days ago after listening to Atlas for the millionth time I needed to cleanse my palate. Scrolled through my music and chose Eddie's greatest hits. All killer, no filler.

I'll be listening again tonight and will probably tear up during 'i wanna Go Back'.

Shakin  is a jam for the ages.

Damn man. I was a big fan.

I read he had stage 4 cancer a couple of weeks ago.

RIP.

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