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#2661 Re: The Garden » US Politics Thread » 457 weeks ago
https://www.allenbwest.com/2017/08/13/o … e-missing/
This past weekend I was honored to be in a most picturesque place with some great and hospitable folks in Prescott (Yavapai County) Arizona. I was there to address the Republican Women of Prescott, the nation’s largest Republican women’s club, on their 75th anniversary. The scenery there was just breathtaking and there was just a sense of solemnness that we all need experience from time to time. How great a contrast it was from what was happening across the country in Charlottesville, Virginia.
Let me begin by saying, I deplore any form of supremacist view — white, black, Hispanic, Islamic. I will be the first to openly state and embrace, a sense of American exceptionalism and supremacy that is rooted in our founding principles and values. Any and all else that is contradictory is to be condemned. What I have witnessed post the events of Saturday 12 August is the typical Rahm Emanuel mentality and political posturing: “never let a good crisis go to waste.”
Therefore, I seek to assess what really happened in Charlottesville, Virginia.
First, may God rest the soul of 32-year-old Heather Heyer who tragically lost her life. My sincere condolences to her, her family, and those others who were injured. I fully support seeking the death penalty for 20-year-old James Alex Fields Jr. of Ohio who committed this horrific act of violence. But, how did we get to this place?
This all began because someone decided, as other elected officials have across the country, to cave in to partisan political pressures and seek to erase American history. History is not there for us to love or hate, but for us to learn from and seek to not repeat its mistakes.
If there are those who truly believe we protect ourselves by trying to revise history due to false emotions, then we miss out on who we are as a nation, and our evolution. The statues of long since deceased leaders of the Confederate Army do not stand to remind anyone of oppression. And if a statue can oppress you, then I submit that you have greater issues.
I certainly did not appreciate former President Barack Obama taking a photo op in Cuba before the image of Che Guevara, nor do I enjoy seeing anyone wearing said image on t-shirts here in America…but I do not go into some whimsical state of “oppression.”
And so it is that we do possess in this Constitutional Republic a freedom of speech and freedom of expression. It would appear that said group who didn’t wish to see the statue of Virginian, General Robert E. Lee, who was a commissioned U.S. Army officer, graduate of West Point, and served the nation in the Mexican War, taken down did apply for a permit to hold a rally. We can dislike these individuals, but they took proper measures to secure permission to express their First Amendment right.
Contrary to their position, the word went out for a counter-protest to occur which included groups from a different side of the political spectrum, who have also been very guilty of hateful rhetoric and violence. What should have happened is that these two groups should have been kept miles apart. I do not understanding why any local law enforcement agency would allow these two groups close proximity…first lesson learned. And we must also ascertain, did the counter-protest group seek permit or did they just “show up” in order to provoke, and elicit a response they could use “politically?” Yes, motivations are important to understand in this case, if we’re serious about getting to the bottom of what happened in Charlottesville and not just the typical media-driven frenzy.
I find it rather odd that so many are seeking to lay blame on President Trump for what happened in Charlottesville. And there are some voices out there who want to blame all white people, and all Republicans. How odd that when it was the New Black Panther Party outside a voting precinct in Philadelphia in black fatigues and with clubs, nothing was said. As a matter of fact, they weren’t even prosecuted for voter intimidation. And when it was the riots in Ferguson and Baltimore fueled by media false narratives and a presidential administration’s rhetoric, there was no blame laid on Barack Obama. It appears to me that there is a blatant hypocrisy when an individual commits a horrible crime, such as in Charleston, South Carolina, and a collective group of people are to be held accountable.
But, when there’s an Islamic terror attack people say, “we cannot rush to judgment” or “this is not indicative of all Muslims”…to wit I agree, but why not call the enemy for what it is” militant Islamic terrorism or jihadism? Why must some be browbeaten into condemning the actions of a few, yet we have others who have fully admitted their support to groups calling for a “resistance?” And where were the voices to condemn the violence in Washington DC on Inauguration Day, or even at UC-Berkeley…or the violence committed against those who support the current president or hold beliefs aligned with Constitutional conservatism?
If we want to condemn groups such as the neo-Nazis and others, then we must also condemn groups such as BLM and Antifa. And we need to stop the cherrypicking, as they all should be investigated. Let’s end this absurdity of trying to connect the Republican Party with the Ku Klux Klan, since it was a creation of the Democrat Party. And I seem to recall Senator Robert Byrd of West Virginia, infamously known as a grand wizard of the Klan, lauded over at his memorial by Barack Obama, Bill and Hillary Clinton. It was Senator Byrd who was vehemently against the Civil Rights Act of 1964, but it was Republican Senator Everett Dirksen who supported its passage.
James Alex Fields will be punished to the full extent of the law, and I truly believe he should never see the light of day again. But if we blindly do not realize there has been an atmosphere of hatred fomented in this nation, we are ignorant. Who even remembers the fella who attempted to gun down several Republican Members of Congress at a baseball practice, severely wounding Rep. Steve Scalise? The mainstream liberal progressive media pushed that aside rather quickly, and let us not forget MSNBC commentator, Joy Reid, who on her Sunday show actually sought to justify Rep. Scalise’s shooting because of his voting record. Now, where was the condemnation there, and why is it that Ms. Reid still has a position and a show on that network?
Fareed Zakaria praised the Central Park play depicting the “Caesar-like” stabbing to death of President Trump — last time I checked he was still on CNN. And how many Democrat elected officials were pressured into making statements of condemnation of one Kathy Griffith who notoriously held up the bloodied severed head resembling President Trump?
There’s plenty of guilt to be passed around here, but the progressive socialist left will sadly exploit this for all they can. They will horribly believe this will provide them some sort of electoral advantage. They fail to realize they’re just as complicit in what happened in Charlottesville. Let me ask that age-old rhetorical question: “if a tree falls in the woods, and no one is there, does it make a sound?”
If we were to go back and ponder this incident and just let a small group of disaffected individuals hold a rally to protest the possible taking down of a statue of General Robert E. Lee, and no one had showed up…Instead a call went out and trouble, violence ensued. Or maybe, if we had courageous elected officials who would just say, those statues aren’t offending anyone; they’re part of American history, and they stay. Imagine that, would there even be a story, any rally, and violence?
What happened in Charlottesville must not be allowed to happen again. And that means we need to hold ANY group responsible that promotes violence. “What do we want, dead cops; when do we want them, now”…”Pigs in a blanket, fry them like bacon”…no more. Our streets aren’t the place for hoods and masks, such as Antifa wears, and their violence and destruction of property. Let’s call them all out, and not have this selective enforcement mentality rooted in partisan political hackery. If we don’t stop the blatant hypocrisy, which is truly the problem, then we’re sitting on a powder keg — which I believe some wish for.
I have an idea. If y’all want to fight, sign up in the U.S. military — if you meet the standards. There are plenty of folks who do indeed hate the United States. Channel your angst against them…not each other.
#2662 Re: The Sunset Strip » HBO's A Game of Thrones » 457 weeks ago
Pretty good episode overall. Didn't like that Jorah didn't mention that Sam cured him. Didn't like Cersei accusing Jamie of betraying her.
Dany has lost all moral authority after roasting the Tarly's. Sansa's desire to be queen despite never having done anything to earn it drives me bonkers. If that's how the writers feel about female empowerment, I'd say the feminist movement has been knocked back a couple decades.
#2663 Re: The Garden » US Politics Thread » 457 weeks ago
Nazi shitbags celebrate her death:
Heather Heyer: Woman Killed in Road Rage Incident was a Fat, Childless 32-Year-Old Slut
Look for the most heinous and shocking opinion and you'll find it. Who the fuck thinks what that piece of shit did was ok? Who thinks that woman deserved to be killed or harmed in any way?
Who are these people? The klan has less than 2k members nation wide. They estimate the white supremacy shit around similar numbers. Let's be generous and say 10k of these people exist. Who thinks they're worth listening to? Who values the opinions they hold? Is it members of the other 10k?
Arrest the prick. Charge him with the death penalty. But the idea that this behavior is something new and exclusive to these idiots is bullshit. We've had years of far leftists disrupting speakers, rioting in the streets, assaulting counter protestors. No one in power supported it, but they did nothing to stop it. Now they've emboldened the neo Nazi shit heads who were shamed into obscurity.
This is going to be the victim card to allow the leftist to go further. Shutting down the mall of America or blocking an interstate won't be enough. Burning down a store or breaking the windows at Ann Coulter won't be enough. So more people bored enough to go protest free thought and different opinions will get smacked in the head with a tire iron by a masked assailant. Good job. You got everything you wanted. What you didn't consider is unlike the antifa crazies, the skin heads have assault rifles and have the same desire to die for the cause as a Jihadi.
So keep hoping "nazis" get clubbed in the head. Soon they'll be returning bullets, and unlike you, I don't want blood in the streets.
#2664 Re: The Garden » US Politics Thread » 457 weeks ago
So everyone there was a Nazi? Can you at least try to be honest and not a total asshole? Can you try to defend your claims with facts and not scurry off, sending your personal ball licker love notes through Karma?
Did you not advocate violence before it started? Did not "your group" instigate violence by macing people? The NYTimes wrote that the violence was just as bad on the left before people with the IQ of Mitch started howling.
How many people have been killed by Nazis in America in the last 20 years and how many under Allah. I know there's not a YouTube video made by a college drop out that can hand you your talking points. Samantha Bea isn't very good at coming up with rebuttals. But can you try to be an adult and prove that you're as smart as you think?
I didn't say there weren't nazis there. But the idea that everyone who was there or falls under the "alt-right" (whatever the fuck that term means) and that the violence wasn't equal between idiots on both sides is laughable. You wanted violence. You advocated for it right here. Then someone died because the group of people with your same talking points pissed off the wrong retard. So own it. Own that you're everything you accuse Trump of being.
I'm not defending this assholes. But I'm also not defending the ANTIFA/BLM crowd either. You know, that whole consistency thing you continually fail to grasp.
"I'm not a violent person. But I sure as hell like advocating Nazis get punched in the face"
"What's a nazi, SLC?"
"Anyone who doesn't think like me and requires more discussion than a 30 second Samantha Bea clip."
#2665 Re: The Garden » US Politics Thread » 457 weeks ago
Are they nazis because they believe in universal healthcare or because they believe based on your skin color you should be treated differently? Or are they nazis because they want a federal government that punishes people for thought crimes. I'm trying to distinguish that chubby beta male from your beliefs and am coming up short. If I didn't know any better I'd say you were using a word you didn't understand (as usual) because you can't defend your position intelligently.
You wanted violence. You got violence. Not everyone hides behind the internet acting tough. What rallies have you been at since you support violence against nazis? Or are you content hiding behind your monitor.
I want all of it to stop. But you're perfectly content watching losers attack in groups behind masks. I keep forgetting you're an FBI agent, but agent Punk, can you tell me how many people have been harmed by white supremacist in the past 20 years? How many under the name of Allah?
#2666 Re: The Garden » US Politics Thread » 457 weeks ago
Randall Flagg wrote:North Koreans are starving while their country builds nuclear weapons, and some Americans feel oppressed because not everyone pretends Catelyn Jenner is a woman. That's how disconnected we are. Complete lack of focus from what's important. Trump is right. America is just living off the fat of the past.
That's rather simplistic. We have Americans starving. We have Americans with no home. We have Americans with no healthcare. All as we give money to the Pentagon that they don't need or want.
And the keyword is some Americans feel oppressed. Most people just want to figure out how to provide for their family, keep a roof over their heads and be good people. They aren't on Twitter all day arguing about transgenders or what stupid shit Trump said at 4 the previous morning.
Except we really don't. There's a fundamental difference between some junkie who avoids the law and shelters because they want to get their fix and normal people denied the ability to eat. Your argument is overly simplistic, because "there's a possibility of someone starving in America (because we don't force feed people), so let's pretend there's an equivalence to North Korea."
And they key word is they're not oppressed. Black people living in the South in the 1950s were oppressed. They couldn't vote. They couldn't eat at the same restaurant as whites, drink from the same water fountain or use the same toilet. They couldn't go to the same school or use the same swimming pool. They had to ride behind white people on the bus. That was oppression. Some gang banger who gets clipped because he wants to argue with police while armed isn't oppression.
This is where you guys jump the shark. The US executes child rapists and murders, and Kim executes anyone who doesn't laugh or cry hard enough. But in your mind, there's some overlap that's worth paying lip service to. People won't play make believe, deny science and pretend Bradley Manning is now a woman. "THEY'RE SO OPPRESSED. IT'S LIKE LIVING IN NORTH KOREA OR SYRIA."
You sat here on this very forum and said you hoped some white supremacist got their skull cracked. Well your idiot buddies, hit them with bear mace and pelted them with rocks. So one nut job drove his car into them. You own this just as much as you want to blame Trump.
Trump is right. Both sides are guilty. The left has been acting up for years, using violence and property damage to justify their own narcissism. You and everyone else on the far left kept your mouths shut or outright supported it. Again, you advocated that a bunch of "chubby beta males" get smacked in the head by a bunch of losers who think gender is fluid or that this is still 1851. This violence is a direct result of antifa, BLM and the like whom have been violating the law for years. But god forbid you acknowledge that your "group" showed up at this protest looking for violence and provoking it. As long as left wing losers are allowed to smash in starbucks, pelt police with rocks, and spray people they disagree with in the face with bear mace, you're going to get a retaliation from the equally stupid far right nut jobs.
Spend 5 minutes on youtube looking for progressive acts of violence. Smacking someone in the head with a chain and then running off. You had no problem with it because you hate Trump and his supporters. Well, now they're going to start throwing punches back. You can't solve one without solving the other. To pretend this was a one sided affair is completely dishonest. Or did we forget some Sanders nut job shot up congress a couple months ago.
#2667 Re: The Garden » US Politics Thread » 457 weeks ago
I just think this is a result of policies that encourage people to segregate based on arbitrary differences. Everyone wants an identity. So it's no surprise you have extremism as you create these incredibly unique and isolated groups.
This white power shit can't continue. It needs to be stamped out. But their boldness is a direct reaction to the argument white men should be shamed for behavior they had no part in or benefited from. How the hell is a hick in WV privledged as he's strung out on oxy.
Hyper partisanship has encouraged extremist. Congress and Trump should start working on common ground. But everyone's more than happy to keep score and point the finger.
North Koreans are starving while their country builds nuclear weapons, and some Americans feel oppressed because not everyone pretends Catelyn Jenner is a woman. That's how disconnected we are. Complete lack of focus from what's important. Trump is right. America is just living off the fat of the past.
#2668 Re: The Garden » US Politics Thread » 457 weeks ago
So a group of Alt Right, Neo Nazis, White Nationalists and other creeps decided to march today in Virginia. As you may imagine, that didn't turn out too well. Hopefully some of these Nazis had their heads split open, that would be nice.
And at least one person is dead and several injured after someone drove a car into a crowd. Glad you like seeing people kill each other.
#2669 Re: The Garden » US Politics Thread » 457 weeks ago
misterID wrote:But he thinks he's doing great. One of the reasons is because he surrounds himself with sycophants who tell him that he is the greatest President the world has ever known. And he will unleash fire and fury like the world has ever known. And when he farts, it smells like roses...like the world has ever known!
I don't see much difference between Trump and Kim. They're virtually the same person. the only difference is what side they're on. You could have use these words to perfectly describe either.
People are really getting excited about war talk around here...
This is why I call you a stupid mother fucker. Mitch, the only person who eggs on your stupidity is SLC. Have you noticed that?
That you think Trump is remotely comparable to Kim, a guy who murders his family and starves his people, shows how fucking stupid you are. Thank god you didn't breed. Cause you really are a special kind of stupid.
#2670 Re: The Garden » US Politics Thread » 457 weeks ago
Randall Flagg wrote:I think we need to take military action. For over 2 decades now we've appeased North Korea, and now they're months or a year away from being able to strike the US. Kim is threatening to strike Guam. At what point do we say "enough is enough" and act to prevent this from becoming much worse. Russia and China aren't going to stop or respond militarily if the US takes out Kim. They'll bitch and yell, but they won't act and neither will the UN or the EU.
It's nor going to be pretty and people will die, but somehow the idea of Americans dying to make the world a better place has become taboo and people pretend we live in a bubble where there's always a peaceful answer. NK can't hit the US yet, so why not act now before a US strike could result in LA or SF being hit.
I'm sure millions of people would have preferred Chamberlain acted in 1935 rather than waiting until 1940 to stop Hitler.
Wait a minute....
You used to criticize me(harshly I might add) for making similar suggestions. I think you agreed to a certain extent if we HAD to go in(do it Desert Storm style) but I'd like to know what makes this crisis so much more important than the one that happened on Obama's watch a few years back.
I know many consider Obama a pussy but we came damn close to doing it. Kim blinked and ran back down into his basement.
Threat to Guam the tripwire? Fuck...they threatened US a few years back.
I agree...something needs to be done. Hell...its 20-30 years overdue. I'm just not sure if now is the time to do it.
Korea is heavy shit. Its why every president throws the hot potato to the next one.
As you well know(and probably a lot more than me) that is a HUGE gamble to say Russia and China aren't going to do anything. China was at the border waiting for Obama to flush the bombers. Was it a bluff? Maybe....but to use the words of Woody Allen....
Never bluff a bluffer.
China won't act because they don't want a United Korea under the western friendly South.
Wait, what?
Isn't that the exact reason they act or am I reading that incorrectly? A US vassal state at the border of China is not something China is interested in. Lets not forget about Russia's border.
We're playing with fire here.
We need a Reagan or a kennedy to light the match....not a Trump. One wrong move in there and its the quagmire to end all quagmires.
The question you need to ask is would you rather 3 million Koreans die to prevent 300k Americans from dying. It's not even a debate for me.
When worded like that. default answer is yes.
If this goes down I want it handed to the military full throttle and Trump stay out of the way. The thought of Trump sitting there looking at a map and making the decisions is absolutely frightening.
Lol...NK isn't even close to a threat.
Yes they are. They were a threat when a near identical crisis happened a few years back. I realize you and Flagg aren't too fond of each other these days but no need to disagree when he says the sky is blue.
This is a big deal. China saying if Kim is stopped, they'll attack the US.
I knew they were going to. Its just like last time.
bigbri wrote:Trump is actually making Kim look like the least crazy of the two.
Military solutions are now fully in place,locked and loaded,should North Korea act unwisely. Hopefully Kim Jong Un will find another path!
— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) August 11, 2017This is pretty terrifying in its stupidity. He's literally daring Kim to strike first. That seems like a bad strategy. NK needs to be dealt with; trying to provoke the enemy to strike isn't the way to do it.
That is frightening.
I want him off of twitter. Its like we have a 12 year old throwing a temper tantrum running the show.
That damn phone and social media should be the last things on his mind right now.
It's getting to the point where Trump is talking so recklessly they need to realistically consider removing him from office.
Yeah I'm getting awfully close to agreeing with this.
He just threatened Venezuela with military action....
I looked this up. I thought you were joking.
Sweet baby jesus....
Obama didn't face an ICBM. If NK attacks Seoul, we take out their military bases, but we leave Kim in place and wait for UN or Allied support.
If they hit Guam, it's a different ball game. That's an act of war. If that happens I support any and all action to destroy NK to the point no further attacks are possible. I'm not saying we setup shop like in Iraq. But we destroy their war machine and confiscate their nuclear material. Let China have the terroritiry and work out UN aide. Stay on stand by incase any hostile group tries to organize, and respond with total force to anihilate it.
Kim now has an ICBM that can hit anywhere. They think he may have the capability to put a nuclear warhead on it. I don't know if that's true. The CIA needs to find out. But if we accept that NK getting an armed ICBM is inevitable, then we accept there's a chance they'll use it on the US. If we accept NK will use it on the US, or believe there's an unacceptable chance they would use it, it's only humanitarian and logical to destroy that threat now, rather than delay to when NK is capable of inflicting more horror. That saves lives in the end. Because a US response to a nuclear strike would be scorched earth.
Draft a military action. Require a thorough assessment with allied intelligence. Then go to Congress. Trump has the authority to strike first, and absolute authority to respond if we were attacked. But he should attempt to gain Congressional support by pleading his case domestically and globally. The decision is Trump's alone to make. Mattis is an amazing SoD, and Tillerson is working to handle it diplomatically. They'll give him great advice, and I'm sure other channels are being utilized. But he owes it to the American people to get approval from Congress and the public.
And desert storm was a precise military action. We bombed the shit out of them and drove them out of Kuwait with no combat losses. It was as perfect as a strike as one can think of.
The invasion of Iraq under Bush was a fucking huge success. We destroyed their Army in under a month. Conquered Baghdad and captured Saddam. We won. Where we struggled was putting up a friendly, competent government and stabilizing the country. But in the end we all but squashed the resistance and turned the country over to Iraq after building it back up and training the new army. But then ISIS popped up and crushed their weak ass Army. We ultimately failed to create a stable country capable of standing on its own.
But Saddam wasn't threatening to Nuke the US. My argument was always, a sovereign nation can use technology as they want. Iraq could have nuclear energy and capabilities. It's only if they threaten us, do we have an obligation to act. I don't care what he did to the Kurds, just as I don't care what Assad did to his people. Or what Duerte does in the Phillipines or Madduro does in Venezuela. But if they have nukes and threaten to use them against us, I say we assess that threat and respond accordingly. Iraq didn't pose a threat, so I didn't give a shit. Just as I didn't give a shit about the Taliban. Kill those that get in our way, but we should have tracked Bin Laden to any location until we got him. It never should have taken 9 years. But removing the Taliban from power? I don't think any American should risk their life so some Afghani girl can go to school. I don't give a shit. My tribe is the US. I want as many allies as possible that want to work with us rather than against us.
And I say the same thing about WW2. That French and British school kids don't sing " God Bless America" every morning before school, is a god damn joke. How many of you are willing to go fight and die for human rights in Saudi Arabia. None of you. So why take that risk to countries we weren't obliged through a treaty to help or had never helped us. America got its price though. It got assets and military supremacy across the globe. Could you imagine a South Korean military base adjacent to DC? South Korean soldiers set up and walking as occupiers? There'd be riots in the streets. So the idea that WW2 was from some noble desire to protect Democracy or protect the Jews, think again. Getting assets in Iraq wasn't worth the price. Just as getting assets in NK isn't worth the price. But knocking out their army and government with demonstrated precision? I'll have that discussion.

