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#2721 Re: The Garden » US Politics Thread » 459 weeks ago

I'd just like to point out that the fuckery the GOP is going through with healthcare, is the exact problem Democrats went through in 2009, albeit with less publicity. And the rushed, mishmash of a last minute agreement to pass was the ACA. No Democrats are involved in this mess, just as no Republicans were in the ACA. And Republicans will get to use the same bullshit excuse that "it was their idea".

Let's hope they don't rush something through tonight that is just as problematic as the ACA. I'm still hoping for bipartisan compromise. Though it was funny not a single democrat voted for single payer today. I think that's called having a private and public position.

#2722 Re: The Garden » US Politics Thread » 459 weeks ago

PaSnow wrote:
Randall Flagg wrote:
PaSnow wrote:

Trump is so bad he's gotten me to like Jeff Session & Rex Tillerson. Scaramucci had a bizarre interview on CNN where I now feel I'm siding with Priebus. This whole thing is nuts.


In a way, it's a decent strategy if not for the fact it's completely random.  Ostracize congressional GOP leaders from Trump, making GOP Congressmen the middle ground between nutty left wingers and child Trump.  You also create common ground between congressional Dems and Repubs, increasing the chance some will break ranks to work together.

This thought crossed my mind too, to get Dems to side with some GOPers. Only, I do think Sessions & Tillerson will resign by years out. Sure, if it's all a big conspiracy, it's pretty well thought out. I don't think it is tho, I just think it's a mess. We'll see.


Yea, no way do I think this was planned or orchestrated. It just may be a beneficial outcome.

#2723 Re: The Garden » US Politics Thread » 459 weeks ago

PaSnow wrote:

Trump is so bad he's gotten me to like Jeff Session & Rex Tillerson. Scaramucci had a bizarre interview on CNN where I now feel I'm siding with Priebus. This whole thing is nuts.


In a way, it's a decent strategy if not for the fact it's completely random.  Ostracize congressional GOP leaders from Trump, making GOP Congressmen the middle ground between nutty left wingers and child Trump.  You also create common ground between congressional Dems and Repubs, increasing the chance some will break ranks to work together.

#2724 Re: The Garden » US Politics Thread » 459 weeks ago

PaSnow wrote:
slcpunk wrote:

I also know the VA spends millions on boner pills for their vets as well. Let's not say this is about costs...

It's red meat for the evangelicals, a feather in the cap for Trump and another distraction method.

Definitely does remind ya of the way the 'Travel Ban' was implemented & rolled out. Just a bomb of a decision dropped onto the public.

Yea, this was a piss poor way to implement it. Mattis had just announced a delay and 6 month study.  I agree with the idea, but Twitter isn't how we manage America. A decision should have been made in private and a group should have answered all the questions. Only then announce it with a defined date.

I expect to see some reserve JAG officer to file a suit to raise the profile of his private practice. Should be good drama.  Someone is going to file a suit on behalf of a transgender person. Could end up at SCOTUS and the court declares men can't become women under the law. Oh one can dream

#2725 Re: The Garden » US Politics Thread » 459 weeks ago

misterID wrote:

How could the real head cases who want to join the military specifically for sex change surgery make it through the initial process of joining, like the tests, and then make it through boot camp? Not everyone who wants to join actually can. I nearly joined the Army and had several people I know in the Marines try to get me to join and I have a little insight into that, so I just don't see how they could join so nonchalantly. I can assure you, one of my issues in joining had nothing to do with trans people or gays.

If you lose your ding dong and can and still want to perform your duty, I don't have an issue with it at all.

You'd be shocked at who enlists into the military and for what reason.  I had soldiers who were homeless before enlisting, soldiers that enlisted to get healthcare for their autistic child, soldiers that wanted the GI Bill, people that wanted to get US citizenship (the Vietnamese guy I went through boot with in 2000 had an 11 year old wife in Vietnam).  I never cared why someone joined.  Just that they do their damn job. 

I agree, joining solely to get reassignment surgery is a hell of a gamble.  But if being transgendered isn't a disqualifying condition, it can't be used to screen people out as long as they're otherwise healthy.  I don't even know if that would be legal, as people who hid other medical conditions that manifested during training (a previously broken leg that wasn't reported but flares up due to high impact training was incredibly common) and were caught, were quickly discharged and sent home.  I'm not concerned with that aspect.

The sole purpose of a Soldier is to deploy, to fight wars.  Yea, there is a whole lot of bullshit that soldiers do that has noting to due with the military.  I remember one thanksgiving my unit was the last to go home for the holiday because the Sergeant Major literally had Soldiers out picking dark colored rocks from the area in front of the Brigade HQ to make it look nicer.  But as I previously said, I had 3 or 4 guys I couldn't take to Iraq because I needed their equipment (and them) in remote areas of northern Iraq where I couldn't say with complete confidence they would have access to electricity 24/7, ergo I couldn't promise their CPAP machines would always work.  The Soldier can't say "I don't mind or I'll take the risk."  If the soldier has been diagnosed with a medical condition, they need to have constant support according to regulations.  I had a Soldier who had been diagnosed with depression, and while severe depression is generally a medical discharge, it's not always.  But because my unit wasn't going to be on the of the 4 or 5 major bases in Iraq, we couldn't guarantee routine access to the anti-depressants he needed.  He didn't deploy. 

People who undergo gender reassignment surgery need constant medication and constant hormone injections.  If anti-depressants and electricity aren't guaranteed,  how the hell are climate controlled liquids like hormones going to be made available?  They're not, and that's why you won't find a single example of a trans Soldier being deployed.  Sure, you have a Manning type who are "trans" but keep it hidden and haven't been officially diagnosed or treated.  But it's not as if there's this large contingent of "trans" soldiers in the military.  Could someone with type 2 diabetes or Asthma serve in the Army, probably.  But the military is the most egalitarian system there is, so as a matter of entry, no one is given special consideration.  There are waivers, but those are few and far between and generally fall under "moral waivers" meaning someone who had a DUI when they were 18 and are now 25 with years of a solid record trying to join. 

This isn't bigotry.  This is about recognizing that the military is a lethal fighting force that needs to be able to send all of its members to the worst conditions on the planet to enforce the US' will.  Sure, if you get hurt on the job they make exceptions to standards.  I fucked my knees up bad in Iraq due to an injury.  I couldn't/can't run anymore, so rather than have to run 2 miles in under 16 minutes, I had to walk 2.5 miles in under 34 minutes.  But when i was 17 in basic training, I ran the same 2 miles to standard as everyone else.

#2726 Re: The Garden » US Politics Thread » 459 weeks ago

slcpunk wrote:

The majority get surgery through Medicaid? How would anybody know that? They are keeping track of private/public reassignment surgeries? Some national database sponsored by Breitbart? 16


Or maybe you could read for once instead of watching YouTube videos and being convinced of conspiracies.  Here's an article from the APA, saying that 65% of trans people earn less than 25k a year:

http://www.apa.org/pi/ses/resources/pub … /lgbt.aspx

Who qualifies for medicaid/medicare?

But please, continue to affirm your ignorance and lack of general intelligence on nearly every issue. 

If you have other articles claiming trans people are well adjusted and high earners, I'd love to read it.  But the discussion is about Trans people in the military - something you have no experience or insight too.  But please, make jokes and lob insults.

#2727 Re: The Garden » US Politics Thread » 459 weeks ago

Smoking Guns wrote:

I have no problem with not allowing trans folks. There are currently only 250 total serving. Sounds like there was a cost associated with the trans folks.

EDIT: now they say 7,000 trans troops. That sounds almost not believable.


That's because they won't define what trans means. Just as they won't define gender. Keeping it ambiguous allows them to alter the discussion and avoid medical or objective diagnostics.

The majority of trans people get their surgery through Medicaid, because surprise, people with this condition struggle to find regular, well paying employment. The military isn't Walmart or target. You don't get to voice your opinion or hope your feelings are respected. It's the ultimate group think organization. Individuality isn't a cornerstone of its culture or policies. Some people would see the Army as a means to get their surgery, enlist for 3 years, then remain undeployable for years because of the surgery plan time and recovery. Hormone injections mess with your mind. You can't hand someone a rifle and expect them to be stable when you introduce levels of estrogen or testosterone they've never experienced before. We don't deploy pregnant women either.

#2728 Re: The Garden » US Politics Thread » 459 weeks ago

Trump just ended trans gender soldiers serving or being accepted into the military. The goobers will squak, but a soldiers only purpose is to deploy. I couldn't deploy people with sleep apnea to Iraq because I couldn't guarantee electricity for their machines. Hormone shots and mental health aren't going to be available down range.   But that logic won't stop the sheep from crying discrimination.

#2730 Re: The Garden » US Politics Thread » 459 weeks ago

Smoking Guns wrote:

I am ready for Mike Pence

I'm torn on this.  Trump has become incredibly toxic.  His public berating of Sessions is unacceptable.  Obama sold the ACA to the American people.  He toured the country, sold America his healthcare plan.  He was a leader.  Trump hasn't done that.  Commenting over Twitter isn't leading.  It's what millions of basement dwellers who don't know their ass from a hole in the ground do.  If he fires Mueller, he's done.  The GOP needs to step up and tell him to knock this shit off.

But...., the media has been antagonistic towards him since he was sworn in.  Obama was handed a Noble Prize before he even took office and the media came out with their fangs bared the moment Trump won.  The media largely ignored any wrong doing or scandal in Obama's administration, and now cut to breaking news every time someone claiming to be an insider says Trump farted.  Now Trump bitching about the media is funny, since they are in part why he got the nomination.  Trump nor the media had a problem with Trump giving them record ratings and some media personality hanging on his every word while he campaigned.  No one has yet shown that he has done anything illegal, just a bunch of conjecture and whatifs at this point.  But at what point do you dismiss that the the deck was stacked against him and accept that regardless of reason or fault, he's not accomplishing anything?  I don't know.  I don't understand how despite all of this, he's still more popular than Clinton. 

I didn't go to his speech tonight because I support him.  And I certainly wasn't won over by seeing him in person.   I'm happy ICE is rounding up illegals, as sanctuary cities and those who preach for open borders own every death caused by an illegal or those who die trying to get here to get sanctuary.  Trump certainly hasn't done any worse than Obama on the foreign policy front, but I was hoping he'd go toe to toe with Putin, and he's done anything but that.  I'm all for working together to wipe out ISIS, but fucking with our elections can't be tolerated.  Russia fucked our UN sanctions on NK, and who knows what else they're doing.  I do find it funny that the EU is arguing about sanctioning the US because our forthcoming Russia sanctions could hurt their flow of oil.  So much for consistency.  "Quit invading and annexing Eastern Europe, but please continue to sell us our oil.  What was that about Germany being a green country or the Paris Accords?  Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain." 

It's all a fucking farce and our congress is too inept and content to bicker to actually work to accomplish better legislation and reform.  Sure, Pence might not tweet at 2am.  But I don't want someone who thinks he can talk to god or that you can pray the gay away making major decisions.

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