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#2801 Re: The Garden » US Politics Thread » 462 weeks ago

Fucking Trump, it's not like Obama went around badmouthing the US...oh fuck

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mXT4_Kon5UQ



I know, I'm a fat beta male liar.  Obama was amazing, never did anything wrong and even if Trump does the same thing Barry did, it's somehow unheard of, an attack on democracy and the end of America.  Black Jesus

#2802 Re: The Garden » US Politics Thread » 462 weeks ago

Smoking Guns wrote:

I appreciate the fiscal responsibility that Buzz has laid out before us.

Trump and Putin's meeting has gone over an hour.


Any kind of personal responsibility is completely absent from the mind of our friends.  ID couldn't even acknowledge the ACA was an entirely Democratic bill without a single Republican contribution.  They're so committed to blaming everyone else, they even selectively quote some figure that the very article they're pulling from calls false.  It's not that Democrats created a bad bill, it's someone else's fault (the Republicans) that their legislation was complete shit.  It's not the blacks in the south and west side of Chicago who are at fault for the gun violence.  It's poverty or the NRA or guns. 

It's a fundamental failure to recognize cause and effect.  You're not poor because you dropped out of high school, your mother had out of wedlock children with multiple people, or you have a bad work ethic.  It's institutional racism/the patriarchy/ white privilege, etc.  Something like 85% of the country had health insurance prior to the ACA.  It wasn't that the 15% without needed to change their behavior, the system must be broke because it didn't account for an infinite amount of variables and accommodate those who have no interest in participating in a civilized society. 

It doesn't matter that Canada and Europe can spend absurd amounts on social welfare solely because the US keeps the bad guys away.  The US is bad because it can't be the world's police, protect the west, and provide free college, healthcare and a $15 minimum wage with 18 months maternity leave and 4 weeks paid vacation every year. 

It's not their fault they lack any evidence to support their beliefs.  It's that we haven't given them enough time to generate the smoking gun that proves their allegations true.

Identity politics and perpetual victimhood is their lifeblood.

#2803 Re: The Garden » US Politics Thread » 462 weeks ago

misterID wrote:

You lied. And denied. I did what you asked and you moved the goal post. Weak.

You wanted an amendment. I gave it. You wanted a name. I gave it. You lied.

You're lying again.

And again.

Liar.


Thanks for going SLC.

#2804 Re: The Garden » US Politics Thread » 462 weeks ago

misterID wrote:
Randall Flagg wrote:
misterID wrote:

I'm not going to jump when you say it. I gave you a name and countered your false claim there was zero input by Republicans. You were wrong, now apologize as I did not lie. You want details, go look it up, you're a big boy. Again, you were wrong.


Come on dude. Don't be a dick. You said there were concessions. You can't provide a single example. I'm sorry if you bought the liberal talking points that the ACA was a GOP idea, but the reality is that not a single Republican idea or opinion was integrated into the bill. None.

You can't call me the asshole when you make a false claim, then find that one republican senator tried to help, and quit because.... tada, the Democrats didn't need a single GOP vote to pass their bill.

That's the objective truth. No GOP input was accepted or implemented into the bill. No republican voted for it. You didn't provide any evidence contrary to that.

I don't want to fight with you. I think you're a reasonable person. So I'm not going to push this anymore.

Rep. Duncan Hunter, R-Calif., (amendment) allowed employers who would have to cut jobs to meet health coverage costs the opportunity to seek a waiver from the bill’s requirements.

Politifact: Congress adopted dozens of the amendments proposed by Republicans

I never said they voted for it, said they didn't. This is the last time I do this. Next time, you do the work to prove your claim right.


No, that's not how it works.  You don't get to make a false claim, then ask someone else to prove you wrong.  I was wondering why you weren't linking your source for your claims.  I found the article and now I know why.  Politifact rated Obama's claim that hundreds of amendments were adopted from Republicans as "false".  You conveniently left that part out from the article you were selectively quoting. 

"Republicans had several opportunities to introduce amendments to the Affordable Care Act, in both the Senate and House bills. Ultimately, for procedural reasons tied to the death of Sen. Ted Kennedy, D-Mass., the Senate version was the only one that moved forward. But Republicans offered changes in the committees that considered the bills before the whole chambers voted on them."


Rep. Duncan Hunter, R-Calif as you cited is a member of the house. 

From the above article you've been citing, again

"Republicans had several opportunities to introduce amendments to the Affordable Care Act, in both the Senate and House bills. Ultimately, for procedural reasons tied to the death of Sen. Ted Kennedy, D-Mass., the Senate version was the only one that moved forward."

Rep. Duncan Hunter, R-Calif

"the Senate version was the only one that moved forward."

And here's part of the article linked and referenced in your politifact article

"The Democratic leadership, fearful that momentum for Obamacare was fading as it continued to poll poorly, decided to rush a bill through the Senate before Christmas 2009. On November 18, Majority Leader Harry Reid merged two separate pending bills into a bill to be voted on by the Senate….  To meet the self-imposed Christmas deadline, Reid provided only six days for debate [on the final version of the bill]. The Senate bill passed on a strict party line vote, 60-39.

Few people, including Senators and their staffs, had time to read the whole 2,700 page bill, much less note any possible weaknesses, flaws, or ambiguities. Reid and other Senate Democrats weren’t terribly worried about this. The bill was set to go to the House, then back to the Senate, then to “reconciliation” between the House and the Senate versions, and then to the president for his signature. Everyone thought there would be plenty of opportunities to make changes."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/vol … 0a05b48e8d

As we all know, Democrats entirely wrote and passed a bill that Pelosi famously said "We have to pass it first to understand it".  It was a huge failure because no one knew what the bill said and Democrats wanted an early political victory for Obama.  I don't want Republicans to make the same mistake Democrats did.  They have a good shot at not losing in 2018, and I don't want them to create a bad bill that might tip the scales.

And with that I'm truly done.

#2805 Re: The Garden » US Politics Thread » 462 weeks ago

misterID wrote:

I'm not going to jump when you say it. I gave you a name and countered your false claim there was zero input by Republicans. You were wrong, now apologize as I did not lie. You want details, go look it up, you're a big boy. Again, you were wrong.


Come on dude. Don't be a dick. You said there were concessions. You can't provide a single example. I'm sorry if you bought the liberal talking points that the ACA was a GOP idea, but the reality is that not a single Republican idea or opinion was integrated into the bill. None.

You can't call me the asshole when you make a false claim, then find that one republican senator tried to help, and quit because.... tada, the Democrats didn't need a single GOP vote to pass their bill.

That's the objective truth. No GOP input was accepted or implemented into the bill. No republican voted for it. You didn't provide any evidence contrary to that.

I don't want to fight with you. I think you're a reasonable person. So I'm not going to push this anymore.

#2806 Re: The Garden » US Politics Thread » 462 weeks ago

misterID wrote:
Randall Flagg wrote:
misterID wrote:

Politifact: 788 amendments were submitted during the ACA’s markup in the Senate Committee for Health, Education, Labor and Pensions committee (HELP). Three quarters of them were filed by the committee’s Republican members, according to John McDonough in his book Inside National Health Reform. Of those, 161 were adopted in whole or revised form.

But Jost added that "there was very significant Republican participation early on on the Senate side. There were dozens of hours of debate, and Republicans like Sen. Chuck Grassley on the Senate Finance Committee were very engaged."

Jost said by September 2009 that period was over and from then on, the bill was strictly a Democratic piece of legislation.

It’s worth noting that many facets of the Republican’s health care agenda at the time made it into the Affordable Care Act. The Affordable Care Act was a private market plan, and it dropped a long-held Democratic priority to include a public option.

In the end, no Senate or House Republicans voted for the Affordable Care Act in its final version.




Please apologize.

What were there amendments?  To strip the individual mandates?  You're being completely disingenuous.  What Republicans supported any part of the bill that was passed?  Can you name one?  Did or did not the bill pass with all 60 Democratic Senators voting yes, giving them the numbers to override any Filibuster? 

So I'll ask you again, what REPUBLICAN ideas (Republican idea being defined as an idea from an actual member of Congress in the GOP) were added to this bill?  Your own posts says one GOP Senator tried to engage, had all of his ideas shut down, and called it a "completely Democratic bill" but you somehow think I'm the one being dishonest?  NOT A SINGLE REPUBLICAN IDEA was added to the bill.  NONE.  Not a single Republican voted for it. 

It was entirely written by and voted on by Democrats. Just as the current healthcare bill before Congress is entirely written by and has thus far been voted on, by Republicans.  If this bad bill somehow passes and turns out to be a nightmare, can I blame Democrats since the ACA is the basis for the entire bill?

You asked, I delivered. Apologize.


This is what I said:

This is a lie.  No other way to spin it.  These weren't Republican concessions.  Can you show me a single Republican member of congress in 2009 who asked for these concessions?  Can you name a single Republican in congress who sat behind those closed door meetings with Pelosi's aides and crafted the bill?

You didn't do that.  You said one senator tried to craft the bill, didn't get any support and called it a "completely democratic bill" 3 months before they voted on it.  Your narrative that this was a "concession" is a falsehood.  No republicans supported nor wrote any part of the bill.  Be a man, admit you were wrong, and that not a single line of legislation in the ACA was written by or supported by Republicans.  Come on ID, you know you messed up here.  Admit it.  Don't be like SLC and be intentionally obtuse and disingenuous.  You went to college.  He didn't.

Point out one piece of the bill that was written by or was a concession to a request from a Republican?  Can you do that?   Can you provide one part of the law that was a Republican concession, something the GOP asked for, wrote or voted on?

#2807 Re: The Garden » US Politics Thread » 462 weeks ago

PaSnow wrote:
Randall Flagg wrote:

No, genius.  You don't get to claim he was under investigation since January, which we know is false.  Then because he's "under investigation" for firing Comey in May, claim "See, I was right all along!"

He's under investigation for firing Comey, because Comey was continuing an investigation which Trump wanted him to drop.

And what does this have to do with SLC's repeated claims since the inauguration that Trump was under investigation for colluding with Russia?

#2808 Re: The Garden » US Politics Thread » 462 weeks ago

slcpunk wrote:
Randall Flagg wrote:

No, genius.  You don't get to claim he was under investigation since January, which we know is false.  Then because he's "under investigation" for firing Comey in May, claim "See, I was right all along!"

Actually lets be more accurate:

The Trump administration is under investigation.

Liar Flagg: Trump is not under investigation.

We're talking about his administration as a whole, it most certainly is.

Liar Flagg: Trump is not under investigation. You liberals are so hysterical.

Again, we're talking about his admin. We've told you this several times now.

Liar Flagg: Trump is not under investigation.

Look at this, as it turns out, Trump himself is now under investigation.

(Total silence from Liar Flagg, and then finally...)

Liar Flagg: Once he's cleared you sure all will look stupid.

(Then lets pick up here where we left off)

Liar Flagg: He's not under investigation, you liberals and your conspiracy theories.


Dude, I seriously wonder if you are mentally ill or just a troll.  For realz.

I posted snippets of all your garbage. 

9/11 Truther: "FLYNN IS GONNA FLIP ON TRUMP", "THE BALL IS GOING TO DROP, SESSION HAD A PUBLIC MEETING WITH THE RUSSIAN AMBASSADOR", "TRUMP IS UNDER INVESTIGATION" "THERE"S A TAPE WHERE TRUMP WAS PISSED ON BY RUSSIAN PROSTITUTES IN THE BED OBAMA SLEPT IN" "TRUMP WORKED WITH PUTIN"

Flagg:  "Do you have any evidence for this?  These are some outrageous claims and they need some kind of evidence."

9/11 TRUTHER:  "FUCKING FAT BETA MALE LIAR!!!"

Months go by

Comey: "Trump was never under investigation.  And the NYT Report suggesting we ever were investigating high ranking Trump officials for collusion was completely false.  I asked some of you Senators to publicly rebuke these salacious charges, but none of you did"

Flagg:  Wow, I'd be embarrassed if I had been posting all these conspiracy theories for months.

9/11 TRUTHER:  "FUCK YOU LIAR!!!!!.   Comey should be fired!!!!!  WE NEVER SAID TRUMP WAS UNDER INVESTIGATION"

Flagg:  Who is we?  Here are several posts from SLC and ID saying just that, in very clear, no uncertain terms that Trump colluded with Russia and that Trump was personally under investigation"

9/11 TRUTHER:  "LIAR!!!!"

Trump Fires Comey

9/11 TRUTHER:  "HOLY FUCK THE BALLS ON THIS GUY.  HOW DARE HE FIRE COMEY.  IMPEACH IMPEACH IMPEACH"

Flagg:  I don't see how saying "I hope you find your way to letting this go" is Obstruction.  But we should have an independent review given 90 days or so to look at the facts so we can end the partisan bickering.  Comey testified Lynch told him not to call his investigation into Hillary and investigation and Comey felt he was being pressured not to look to deeply into it.  That certainly sounds like a stronger case for Obstruction, why aren't the Democrats demanding this be looked into?"

9/11 Truther:  "LIAR LIAR LIAR.  DON'T PAY ATTENTION TO THE MAN BEHIND THE CURTAIN.  PISS TAPES. LIAR!!!"

Trump:  "I am under investigation for firing James Comey"

Flagg:  Being under investigation isn't the same thing as guilt.  You have to do an investigation to determine if any wrong doing occurred.  I put my money Trump won't be found of any wrong doing"

9/11 TRUTHER:  "LIAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!   SEE, TRUMP WAS UNDER INVESTIGATION ALL ALONG!!!"

Flagg:  "Your original claim was that Trump and his high ranking associates were under investigation back in January.  You came here almost every day with a new salacious news story that was never substantiated by any evidence.  You can hardly claim you were right all along when Trump is "under investigation" for a completely different reason for an act 5 months after your conspiracy posts."


9/11 Truther:  "LIAR!!!!!!!!!!!!"

#2809 Re: The Garden » US Politics Thread » 462 weeks ago

misterID wrote:
Randall Flagg wrote:
misterID wrote:

It wasn't bad per se, but it got turned to into chop suey, a lot of it because of Lieberman, but was he ever really a Democrat? The guy was/is a cunt and one reason I refused to vote for Gore.

They gave in to too many Republican concessions who ended up not even voting for the bill. In principal it was good, but too much BS on both sides. I seriously doubt Obama set out to craft a bad bill to deliberately hurt people or his heart wasn't in the right place. As opposed to not even knowing what was in the bill and then call it mean, but still push it anyway.

This is a lie.  No other way to spin it.  These weren't Republican concessions.  Can you show me a single Republican member of congress in 2009 who asked for these concessions?  Can you name a single Republican in congress who sat behind those closed door meetings with Pelosi's aides and crafted the bill?  You guys wrote a bad bill, and tried to argue that some article from the Heritage Foundation in 1994 was somehow a basis for Pelosi and Reid's failed bill.  You tried to call it Romneycare, because Romney was a governor of Massachusetts who passed a quasi healthcare bill through a Veto-proof democratic Senate.

Nothing of this bill was designed or advocated for by Republicans.  It was entirely drafted and voted on by Democrats.  YOUR PARTY didn't want single payer because not every Democrat is from San Francisco.  Your failure to recognize this is why Clinton lost the election.  You can't be like Mitch and shitposting "FUCK WHITEPEOPLE" for 18 months, then act perplexed when white people didn't vote for you in droves.


Politifact: 788 amendments were submitted during the ACA’s markup in the Senate Committee for Health, Education, Labor and Pensions committee (HELP). Three quarters of them were filed by the committee’s Republican members, according to John McDonough in his book Inside National Health Reform. Of those, 161 were adopted in whole or revised form.

But Jost added that "there was very significant Republican participation early on on the Senate side. There were dozens of hours of debate, and Republicans like Sen. Chuck Grassley on the Senate Finance Committee were very engaged."

Jost said by September 2009 that period was over and from then on, the bill was strictly a Democratic piece of legislation.

It’s worth noting that many facets of the Republican’s health care agenda at the time made it into the Affordable Care Act. The Affordable Care Act was a private market plan, and it dropped a long-held Democratic priority to include a public option.

In the end, no Senate or House Republicans voted for the Affordable Care Act in its final version.




Please apologize.

What were there amendments?  To strip the individual mandates?  You're being completely disingenuous.  What Republicans supported any part of the bill that was passed?  Can you name one?  Did or did not the bill pass with all 60 Democratic Senators voting yes, giving them the numbers to override any Filibuster? 

So I'll ask you again, what REPUBLICAN ideas (Republican idea being defined as an idea from an actual member of Congress in the GOP) were added to this bill?  Your own posts says one GOP Senator tried to engage, had all of his ideas shut down, and called it a "completely Democratic bill" but you somehow think I'm the one being dishonest?  NOT A SINGLE REPUBLICAN IDEA was added to the bill.  NONE.  Not a single Republican voted for it. 

It was entirely written by and voted on by Democrats. Just as the current healthcare bill before Congress is entirely written by and has thus far been voted on, by Republicans.  If this bad bill somehow passes and turns out to be a nightmare, can I blame Democrats since the ACA is the basis for the entire bill?

#2810 Re: The Garden » US Politics Thread » 462 weeks ago

misterID wrote:
Randall Flagg wrote:
misterID wrote:

Please, go back and read our Obamacare debates. Again, I'm not going to keep repeating myself, and I think you're doing it on purpose to deflect. Until you admit the republicans hand in Obamacare plan, like stripping the provisions to keep premiums down, blocking subsidies, etc., there's no point in discussing because you refuse to be honest about it.


So did the democrats create a bad bill or not?  How could the GOP block anything that the DNC codified into law?  If what you mean is the Democrats wrote a bad bill, missed a bunch of things because they were in a rush to pass it, and when the GOP had control of the House in 2010, didn't roll over and agree to whatever bandaid fix the Democrats wanted, that isn't on the GOP.  The Dems still made a bad bill and they own all of its success and failures.  You keep ignoring this and wanting to pretend the DNC didn't create a shit bill and it is somehow the Republicans fault Obama and the Democrats never wanted to incorporate any of their ideas.  Remember when Obama said Republicans need to get to the back of the bus, Democrats are in charge now?  I sure do.

It wasn't bad per se, but it got turned to into chop suey, a lot of it because of Lieberman, but was he ever really a Democrat? The guy was/is a cunt and one reason I refused to vote for Gore.

They gave in to too many Republican concessions who ended up not even voting for the bill. In principal it was good, but too much BS on both sides. I seriously doubt Obama set out to craft a bad bill to deliberately hurt people or his heart wasn't in the right place. As opposed to not even knowing what was in the bill and then call it mean, but still push it anyway.

This is a lie.  No other way to spin it.  These weren't Republican concessions.  Can you show me a single Republican member of congress in 2009 who asked for these concessions?  Can you name a single Republican in congress who sat behind those closed door meetings with Pelosi's aides and crafted the bill?  You guys wrote a bad bill, and tried to argue that some article from the Heritage Foundation in 1994 was somehow a basis for Pelosi and Reid's failed bill.  You tried to call it Romneycare, because Romney was a governor of Massachusetts who passed a quasi healthcare bill through a Veto-proof democratic state congress.  Romney vetoed 8 parts of that bill when he signed it, and the Democratic congress overrode all 8 vetoes. 

Nothing of this bill was designed or advocated for by Republicans.  It was entirely drafted and voted on by Democrats. The Democrats had a veto proof majority in the Senate and a majority in the House.  They could have passed any bill they wanted. It passed the Senate with 60 votes, all Democrats.  YOUR PARTY didn't want single payer because not every Democrat is from San Francisco.  Your failure to recognize this is why Clinton lost the election.  You can't be like Mitch and shitposting "FUCK WHITEPEOPLE" for 18 months, then act perplexed when white people didn't vote for you in droves.

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