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#3401 Re: The Garden » September 11 2001 » 721 weeks ago
The plane could probably make a hole, but most of the explosion would take place on the outside. The wings certainly wouldn't enter like a rock in the ocean. There is no speed reduction at impact and the building shows no sign of distress until the explosion.
There is clearly no plane on the horizon in those pictures. People could be flown to another location and killed, or just be made up. Curiously there are none or close to none 9/11 victims in the Social Security Death Database.
#3402 Re: The Garden » September 11 2001 » 721 weeks ago
What gets me the most, if you believe that the government was behind it, if you think the media was in on it (or not), that they did this whole elaborate scheme... Where are the Weapons of Mass Destruction? Wouldn't you think, if they pulled a WTC hoax off, on that scale, wouldn't they have planted WMDs in Iraq? Wouldn't it have been easier than doing that than faking the WTC hijackings, or blowing the buildings up? Why not manufacture and plant the WMD's when no one was looking? If the press was in on it, it would be even easier. Why didn't they do that? They're not going to have their basses covered?
If Cheney was behind 9/11, I'm sure he would have had those WMD's ready to find once we were in Iraq. Otherwise, he and his daughter wouldn't be wearing out his new heart trying to keep him from being written as the villain in American history. He'd already have that chapter written.
The US Government didn't engineer 9/11. Most likely some people in the secret services did.
The WMD lies were set up to put America in a bad light. To proliferate the new image of an aggressive, unjustified superpower. Damaging, not enough to bring the administration down, but enough so a deep resentment was rooted all around the world. Pre 2001 America was the dream to foreigners. Now you're basically viewed as greedy, fascist imperialists.
That doesn't happen with a justified Iraq war.
#3403 Re: The Garden » September 11 2001 » 721 weeks ago
polluxlm wrote:I obviously don't know how they did it all, but bottom line is those videos are depicting an event that can't happen.
I disagree.
The plane does smash up the less heavy parts of the structure (glass etc) and clearly explodes when it hits parts that it can't instantly destroy (steel etc).
It explodes inside the building. The exterior is made of steel, woven like a spider web. There is absolutely no chance the far parts of the wings would have enough force to literally slice through that steel. It's like saying a bicycle will penetrate a trailer truck.
The jet fuel may not burn stronger than steel..but it doesn't have to....all that has to happen is that it has to hit a part of the structure that is not capable of withstanding a side impact with anything weighting 900,000 lbs and moving at over 500mph....IN ADDITION to the existing pressure and load on the building that it withstands all the time....all that has to happen is some of the structure has to buckle out of shape from the impact and the remaining parts are now holding insane loads of pressure from the building itself in addition to the raging fires and other impact damage...and you trigger a domino effect where the momentum of the floors above failing damage the supports of the floors beneath and have a kenetic force of around a kiloton - which is more than the structures at each level can withstand.
That's pretty much a moot point once you realize a plane can't enter the structure like that. In any case you are forgetting the steel core which the floors were attached to. If anything the floors would break off like branches on a tree, but there is simply not enough force to pulverize steel like that. Not to mention the extreme accuracy needed for the whole structure to collapse instead of the top part sliding off at some point. Do that twice and we're talking odds in the trillions.
It's god damn tragic is what it is...but there's nothing at all scientifically impossible about it in my opinion...and alternatively...the theories described to fake it require an implausible number of conspirators involved to execute. You're talking about literally hundreds of regular Americans acting in a treasonous way...and while I'd buy that the top brass may take a utilitarian view...I don't think regular soldiers and media and others raised on the "leave no man behind" war ideals are going to be happily slaughtering new yorkers at random.
You'll fill that quota in Congress alone, and then some. Why wouldn't they? They killed a million in Iraq.
But you are digressing from the main point, the "live" coverage is partly or fully computer generated images. That's a problem.
These are from a FOIA FBI video released in 2008. If you don't see a problem with this footage I don't know what to tell you.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ddGXuy0ep7g
#3404 Re: The Garden » September 11 2001 » 721 weeks ago
misterID wrote:russtcb wrote:The youtube videos posted are really, really stretching. Seems like a lot of "if this, then that might be" type of stuff. And forgive me, but I don't get the point of the last three pics posted.
It seems people are refusing to accept that video, just like the human eye, can preceive optical illusions. The video's aren't filming things in their actual time, there are limitations to video. Plus, polluxlm, did you ever consider some videos were doctored to try and prove the videos were doctored to dupe you, or try to prove it's a conspiracy?
And what about eyewitnesses who saw the planes hit the building? And the people who saw the planes hit from the buildings themselves? Everyone is lying right? Tens of thousands of people?
I mean, it's getting to the point of utter ridiculousness. It would be easier to just fire a friggin missle into the buildings and say it was from Iraq.
Where is the one, even just one, cameraman who was actually filming nothing that day, and was in on the conspiracy, who's come foraward? In ten years? One person who was in on the conspiracy? You're using some greedy owner of a building who took out an insurance policy as proof. Where's that one guy who'd be making millions right now, who could prove it? And you're trying to tell me there were thousands of people, the entire American media, were in on it, even some nobody producer or cameraman, who could be rich right now, they're all just playing along with the conspiracy to this day.... for what?
All of that and then some. Are people actually of the belief that the planes were made up, never existed? All the passengers who died were made up. Family members who congregate at Ground Zero were all "in on it?" I mean, how far does this go exactly? I'm sorry. I'm willing to admit that the government could have done a lot more to prevent it all from happening, but the conspiracy theories being discussed here sound downright outrageous. If our government could pull that off, they'd be the most brilliant minds of all time. And that, they are not.
Because it was broadcast on national tv. It's not very hard to verify.
The CNN shot. Screen fades to black on impact. Then shifts to a zoom where you don't see anything. Back to panorama after the fireball. Curiously neither the news anchor nor the witness on the ground sees a plane. It's not until the reporter gets a message from his producer that he starts talking about a plane.
The ABC shot. The reporter sees a plane on his screen, the witness on the ground doesn't.
CBS. Do all the news helicopters decide to hover in the same spot in manhattan and zoom in real close at the buildings? Here they actually have a witness that saw a plane, but it was "definitely not a commerical airliner, it was a much smaller plane".
The infamous FOX shot. Here the nose of the plane actually survives impact and exits the building. Not to mention that that's a very suave zoom before impact, only too bad they forgot to add the plane in the wide shot.
This is what happens when a real plane hits a highrise building:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?annotation … R6ZQUWvDFs
And yes, where are all the amateur footage? Surely there must have been more than 5 guys with cameras around New York harbour in 2001. Yet those videos are all we have, and they're all inconsistent and fake. Whatever real footage exists probably got snatched by the authorities when however had them turned them in for a buck or whatever. There are also reports of jamming equipment being used at the time of impact:
I obviously don't know how they did it all, but bottom line is those videos are depicting an event that can't happen. Light materials will break and disintegrate when it comes into contact with a stronger object at high speed. Any fuel contained in those materials will ignite immediately. If a plane can't hit water without having its wings break off it surely won't survive through a steel skyscraper unscathed.
#3405 Re: The Garden » September 11 2001 » 721 weeks ago
I didn't say anything about holograms. Although that is a distant possibility there are other more viable options such as a missile propped to look like a plane. Point is we don't know what it was, but we do know what was shown to us on the news wasn't real in the sense that the pictures have been doctored, and we know the official story is a fairy tale. They decided to let a hijackers passport survive the explosion? Sometimes I wonder who writes this stuff.
#3406 Re: The Garden » September 11 2001 » 721 weeks ago
The perspective is way off. Background layer moves way too fast for what appears to be a slow drifting helicopter.
There's nothing stretching it. They're fake, and they have to be. Look at the picture from the Empire State Building impact. Yeah, there's a hole from the explosion, but the plane has clearly exploded on impact, not sliced through the columns before any damage or ignition is made.
They needed the fireball money shot to make the consequent collapse believable, problem is a plane won't do that. Skycrapers are massive, solid constructions. A plane may weigh a fair bit, but it's hollowed out like an egg, and it's nothing against a million ton monolith. Akin to a soda straw impacting a fisher price house. So they faked it. Nothing new, been done before and they're increasingly getting better at it.
Who knows what really happened, but it certainly wasn't no 19 arab hijackers. And we know that for a fact because many of them are still alive and living well.
#3407 Re: The Garden » September 11 2001 » 721 weeks ago
To steal a line from the great comedy, "Airplane", ironically enough, "Surely, you can't be serious".
Who knows, maybe they hired the producers for the job?
Floating bridge?
#3408 Re: The Garden » September 11 2001 » 721 weeks ago
LOL. I suppose they manipulated the home videos too and all of the people calling into radio stations were just making things up right? Man, if you believe this was some gov't conspiracy, you will believe just about anything.
You mean these "home videos"?
[youtube]uC03YC-TjaY&feature=relmfu[/youtube]
The media has been in the pocket of the CIA since the 50s. They've been faking the news with props and actors for at least 25 years. There's a reason they call the first gulf war "the cnn war".
#3409 Re: The Garden » September 11 2001 » 722 weeks ago
polluxlm wrote:Demolition the building, not possible. Blow up a few floors at the top = pulverize the building? Will also make building 7 collapse in a controlled fashion. Possible?
Ok...
You're right though, all those 9/11 theories are no good. Especially the governments version.
LOL - ok. There's absolutely no way in hell that it wouldn't have leaked by now if it was a conspiracy. 2 people couldn't have pulled it off. It would have taken way more people than could keep quiet about it and that's assuming everybody they asked to participate said yes.
Doesn't change the fact that millions of tons of steel doesn't just pulverize.
Not to mention you need those hijackers to hit the targeted areas of the building where they "planted" the explosives perfectly.
What you saw on tv was a digital simulation, because it can't happen in real life. Aluminium < Steel
This is clearly CGI:
#3410 Re: The Garden » September 11 2001 » 722 weeks ago
Demolition the building, not possible. Blow up a few floors at the top = pulverize the building? Will also make building 7 collapse in a controlled fashion. Possible?
Ok...
You're right though, all those 9/11 theories are no good. Especially the governments version.
