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#3571 Re: The Garden » US Politics Thread » 495 weeks ago
bigbri wrote:Randall Flagg wrote:Did you ever consider that BLM may be misleading? When did you align yourself with their beliefs? What research have you done to support their claims? Is it possible that they're misleading and inaccurate in what they say? What does BLM mean to you? Why are 4% of deaths worth 100% of national attention, but any discussion of the other 96% is met with racism. Talk about seeing the trees through the forest. You're focused on 4 fucking trees and ignoring the other 96.
You asked for links about why I think Bannon holds racist beliefs. The tone and attitude of the links are some examples of why I got there. I'm not talking about the content of the links. It's called nuance. The facts presented may be accurate or inaccurate, I haven't checked. The tone of the material, the reason they are written, the thinking behind them, the language used are what lead me to my opinions, not what they reported.
If I wrote a story about why GNR is irrelevant and posted it to a Motley Crue website and provided some stats supporting my claims. The facts might be accurate, but why did I write that story? Why did I say Axl is a wife-beater in said article? Why did I write that article when the GNR reunion is in full swing and folks are onboard? There's more than meets the eye.
If he doesn't think there is anything wrong with it then it's pretty clear why...
And that's why Trump won. You can't even link a single racist comment from Bannon, and call me a racist because I don't condone calling someone racist with qualification.
I've had numerous articles published in a variety of outlets. That makes me as credible as a reporter for Mother Jones. Mister ID and BigBri on GNREvolution are racists. You heard it here first folks. Please refer to this post as evidence if they ever try to deny it.
No, I can't cite a single example of anything racist they've said or done. But if you look at their thousands of posts, you can infer and read between the lines. After all, they both voted for white christians in the election. If that's not evidence they believe in white superiority, I don't know what is.
#3572 Re: The Garden » US Politics Thread » 495 weeks ago
Randall Flagg wrote:mitchejw wrote:What is or isn't racist appears to be very subjective...When RF said something to the effect of, "black people should be grateful that they were brought to this country as slaves," I considered it racist. He disagreed obviously.
Sometimes I wonder if RF thinks racism even exists.
Context please. I said that when blacks in America are asking for reparations, they should consider what the average life of someone in modern Africa is like. Can you name one country in Africa where the average black has a better quality of life than the average black in the US? Since I know you can't, in the context of reparations, I think modern blacks should be grateful for the horror their ancestors endured. Otherwise they'd be enjoying the same quality of life as people living on that continent today.
I don't think you guys even understand what racism means since you so often confuse facts with racism.
To be honest, I don't recall the reparations part because, well in all honesty it never seemed like a legitimate solution to anything.
I don't see this point of view as fact though. I see it as an interpretation.
It's a pretty unique way to interpret the whole thing. If a young child was kidnapped by strangers who were able to provide a better quality of life does that justify the kidnapping?Maybe what you're saying is over my head, but in essence if I'm interpreting what you were saying correctly, then what I said above would be my summary.
No, slavery is definitely racist and any positive outcome to someone who is a slave can't justify that. My original point is that 21st century blacks have no connection or experience to slavery. And only those who lived before 1965 have any connection to Jim Crow.
If I recall, in the original thread someone was trying to connect 21st blacks in America to the horrors of slavery and segregation.
My comments were directed toward that alleged connection and that people should be compensated for the suffering of their ancestors. I then commented that every ethnic group in history had endured horrors and that the American slave was no worse than many of these groups. Yet no one is arguing Egypt should pay reparations to Jews.
#3573 Re: The Garden » US Politics Thread » 495 weeks ago
misterID wrote:I almost didn't post the Mother Jones report specifically because you would blow it off, but they spoke directly with Gannon, it was his quote. But you're ignoring Ben Shapiro, who worked at Breithart and quit because of Bannon. But you latched on to Mother Jones...
What is or isn't racist appears to be very subjective...When RF said something to the effect of, "black people should be grateful that they were brought to this country as slaves," I considered it racist. He disagreed obviously.
Sometimes I wonder if RF thinks racism even exists.
Context please. I said that when blacks in America are asking for reparations, they should consider what the average life of someone in modern Africa is like. Can you name one country in Africa where the average black has a better quality of life than the average black in the US? Since I know you can't, in the context of reparations, I think modern blacks should be grateful for the horror their ancestors endured. Otherwise they'd be enjoying the same quality of life as people living on that continent today.
I don't think you guys even understand what racism means since you so often confuse facts with racism.
#3574 Re: The Garden » US Politics Thread » 495 weeks ago
I almost didn't post the Mother Jones report specifically because you would blow it off, but they spoke directly with Gannon, it was his quote. But you're ignoring Ben Shapiro, who worked at Breithart and quit because of Bannon. But you latched on to Mother Jones...
Nothing Shapiro said called him a racist! Did you read your own article. It talks about how Breitbart abhorred racism. It also starts off with defending Michelle Fields. You remember her right, the woman who tried to get access to Trump, was stopped and claimed she was thrown to the ground. When the video evidence quickly dismissed this notion and it came out that the bruises weren't present until days later when she made her assault claim? So excuse me if I don't feel sorry for someone who tried to get a quick buck and her 15 minutes of fame. Look at the video.
Milo? That's his argument. He just says in point 5 that Bannon aligned Breitbart with the alt right. Then gave Milo as an example. Admittedly, I don't follow Milo, but I've seen a lot of his highlights and I've yet to see anything racist. I thought gay people were above rebuke in the left? Anyway, if you have any racist tweets, articles or videos from Milo, I'll certainly give them a read. But my understanding is that Milo rose to fame with his attacks on transgendered acceptance and mainstreaming by citing studies and articles that discredit the modern left's narrative on the subject. So I'm confused how hosting Milo's content on this topic is racism. But if you have something different, please let me know.
So I'll ask, what did I miss in the Shapiro post that demonstrated Bannon was racist?
#3575 Re: The Garden » US Politics Thread » 495 weeks ago
Randall Flagg wrote:But if the links from Bri are also evidence of alt right racism, then I'm incredibly skeptical about claims of racism.
BLM uses a black power fist as their icon. The thousands of twitter comments advocating Trump be assassinated or "fuck all white people" are far more disturbing than citing figures on black on black crime.
I'm open to hearing how these guys are racist, but so far all I've seen are unqualified claims from folks who think citing crime reports is tantamount to systemic racism.
I was afraid this would happen. It's not the individual claims in those stories, but the language used, the reasoning behind the stories, the philosophy of refuting black arguments, the dismissiveness to anything placing blame on whites, etc. It's less about the specifics and more about the agenda. I guess it's the proverbial trees vs. forest. I explained that in a secondary post.
Whatever, carry on.
Did you ever consider that BLM may be misleading? When did you align yourself with their beliefs? What research have you done to support their claims? Is it possible that they're misleading and inaccurate in what they say? What does BLM mean to you? Why are 4% of deaths worth 100% of national attention, but any discussion of the other 96% is met with racism. Talk about seeing the trees through the forest. You're focused on 4 fucking trees and ignoring the other 96.
#3576 Re: The Garden » US Politics Thread » 495 weeks ago
You don't see a problem with the only claim that Bannon is a racist is that a reporter from Mother Jones (an outlet Bannon would be aware of, mind you) claims he told her he was affiliated with the Alt Right. So I'm going to break it down for you (and by you I mean the reader, not MisterID).
1.) You and millions of others call Bannon a racist
I ask for evidence:
2.) An article from Mother Jones (an organization that is by no means considered objective and respected in the industry - it's on par with infowars or Breitbart) written by a reporter for Mother Jones claims that Bannon told her he helped make Breitbart part of the "alt right."
I ask for evidence to what "alt right" means and why they're racist
3.) A bunch of opinion pieces that is no objective way come across as racist. CITING STATISTICS TO DISCREDIT THE FALSE CLAIMS OF BLACK LIVES MATTER DOES NOT EQUAL RACISM. DISAGREEING WITH SOMEONE DOESN'T MAKE THEM A RACIST.
You get up in arms that someone from Breitbart (a media figure) is now on Trump's team. (My assumption is you don't agree that someone from a heavily conservative news source should be on his team, if that's not correct, please correct me. But if you're going to claim it's because he's a racist, please refer to #1 above)
4.) I reference how The New York Times (media) and the head of the DNC (CNN contributor -Media) secretly sent articles and other confidential information to HRC for approval, establishing a strong media bias and connection to Clinton.
----
So here's what I'm saying. You need to qualify your claims that Bannon is a racist. if you want to make an intelligent and informed argument to support your claim, I just have you the guide.
You're attempting to do this by connecting him to the "alt right."
1.) What is the "alt right"?
2.) How do you define racism?
3.) Is the Alt right racist?
4.) Why is the alt racist?
5.) How is Bannon connected to the alt right?
Extra Credit:
6.) Were/are all the things you lamented about above present in current minority activist groups that you've ignored or hand waived?
7.) If it's okay to make a domestic terrorist an adviser, where is the cut off on what is appropriate?
#3577 Re: The Garden » US Politics Thread » 495 weeks ago
So in two posts, your claim that Bannon is a racist is that a reporter from Mother Jones (you conveniently left out the link, but I try to stay informed on these issues) claims he stated affiliation with the alt right. No audio, no video. Just the claims of a hyper partisan reporter for one of the most liberal media groups in the world.
That passes the smell test?
You're upset that a media personality cozied up to trump. Not that the head of the DNC leaked Hillary debate questions or that Clinton's team had control over releases from The NY Times.
And let's talk about the "alt right." It's not something I'm familiar with or even claim to fully understand. But if the links from Bri are also evidence of alt right racism, then I'm incredibly skeptical about claims of racism.
BLM uses a black power fist as their icon. The thousands of twitter comments advocating Trump be assassinated or "fuck all white people" are far more disturbing than citing figures on black on black crime.
I'm open to hearing how these guys are racist, but so far all I've seen are unqualified claims from folks who think citing crime reports is tantamount to systemic racism.
#3578 Re: The Garden » US Politics Thread » 495 weeks ago
I read your articles. I agree that referring to BLM as being on a crack pipe was offensive and unnecessary. But citing statistics to show that police shootings of unarmed blacks is only 4% of of annual police shootings or that it would take 40 years of police shootings of blacks to equal one year of black on black crime isn't racist. It's showing that #BLM is full of shit and pushing a demonstrably false narrative.
If Blacks cared about the value of black lives, they wouldn't be murdering each other in excess of 4k a year. Shaun King, Clinton and the DNC never pay lip service to these facts. When the DoJ was called in to verify if Mike Brown was illegally shot, they concluded he wasn't. But rather than just state that, they had to pull the liberal trick of looking at random statistics to claim evidence of racism. Nevermind that the facts and crime statistics demonstrably show that blacks commit more violent crime despite only being 12% of the population (really 6.6% since males are predominately more likely to commit violent crimes). Never mind that the DoJ released a study a couple years ago saying that blacks commit a disproportionate amount of traffic violations, accounting for their disproportionate amount of police interactions.
We have facts and studies that show that the black community is incredibly more likely to commit violent crime and traffic crime - the two leading instances of police interaction. But this is never part of the discussion. It comes down to "Punk police spend too much time in our communities because they're racist" or "Racist police pulled me over because I'm black, not because I was driving erratically or driving on a suspended plate/license."
It's the same thing with guns. Less than 1% of gun crimes involve an "assault rifle." Yet if you watch the news, you get the impression people are getting shot up by M16s and AK-47s every other minute. The overwhelming majority of homicides and suicides are committed with hand guns. But when the pundits talk about gun control, they're worried about 30 round magazines and AR-15s. It's about as logical as having a discussion about Spanish Colonialism and someone taking over the conversation to talk about how peasants were treated in Feudal Japan.
#3579 Re: The Garden » US Politics Thread » 495 weeks ago
We're not changing minds here, I understand that. I actually am not as shocked by some of Trump's appointments as I thought I would be. He's going with a lot of establishment folks. He didn't really drawn the swamp. Either that, or there's nothing left when you drain the swamp.
Bannon, though, is a bridge too far. And I'm not gonna be OK with Ben Carson as education secretary, if that happens.
I think Carson is a better fit for Health or even surgeon general. I am hoping Trump appoints Cruz to the court though. I hate Cruz on a personal level, but I can think of no one any better to replace Scalia. Top of his class at Harvard and even argued in front of the Supreme Court. That's better than Obama who the left championed as a "constitutional scholar" during 2008.
#3580 Re: The Garden » US Politics Thread » 495 weeks ago
I'm going to read your articles and give them fair consideration. Please don't assume I'm going to dismiss them unless you know the claim of racism is already weak since you've read them. I would hope participating in discussions with me the past couple of months you'd realize I'm not a partisan shrill.
