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#3591 Re: The Garden » US Politics Thread » 496 weeks ago
Randall Flagg wrote:misterID wrote:Republicans laid the ground work for an obstructionist agenda, one Trent Lott started. They just said, when they were sure Trump would lose, they vowed not to vote on Hillary's supreme court nominee for four years and wait until the next election. They stated that. It worked for them, so why not? Filibuster everything and wait Trump out. I don't want to see it, but if that's the game plan I can't blame them. They can't rely on Hillary hate anymore, he's the most disliked president already... They can just wait.
I hadn't heard of any push to prevent a vote if Clinton won. I disagreed with the GOP not voting on Obama's nominee. But the Dems yanked the filibuster in 2012. They crossed that line. If they try to stop everything, the GOP will do the same. Then the DNC will officially have no power for the next 2 years. If they want to be relegated to living air filters, so be it. I hope that's not the case though. They're in no position to bargain or make demands.
several Republicans have said if the voters elect Clinton, they’ll block her nominees, effectively abandoning their advice and consent role for her entire term.
“If Hillary Clinton becomes president, I am going to do everything I can do to make sure four years from now, we still got an opening on the Supreme Court,” North Carolina Sen. Richard Burr said in an audio recording of his meeting with GOP volunteers on Saturday. CNN obtained a copy of the audio.
GOP Sens. John McCain of Arizona and Ted Cruz of Texas have also suggested blocking any Clinton nominees. Sen. Rand Paul, R-Ky., said in a debate Monday night that he “can’t imagine” voting for any Clinton nominee though he stopped short of vowing to block a pick from a Democratic president.
But where did they hear McCain say that? No link in the article. What does "suggested" mean?
I disagree with those 3 if true, but not Cruz. Voting 'no' isn't obstructionism. There is no candidate Trump will nominate that Elizabeth Warren will vote 'yes' on. She's not obstructing anything. She has an obligation to vote how she feels right. But a refusal to hold a vote or an unwavering filibuster would be. See the difference?
I want the filibuster to stay. I think it's an important tool, and one that should be used sparingly. There are ways to overcome it with a 2/3 majority if a few rogue Senators went bonkers.
If the GOP tried to pass a law barring all federal use of Affirmative Action, should the Dems filibuster to prevent its passing? Most Democrats would say yes. At that point the GOP knows there is no way to pass the bill short of using the nuclear option. So if they decided against going nuclear, yet included that law in every bill they put forward, is it fair to call the DNC obstructionist? I would say no.
Was it obstructionist when Harry Reid refused to allow a single republican bill get a vote during his 6 years as majority leader under Obama? (As I am typing this, Krauthammer just made the exact argument on TV)
So be willing to move and understand everything can't be a deal breaker. Quid quo pro. Hillary was a master of this and that's why I voted for her. But Democrats lost. They need to accept that and choose what's really important and feasible for them and come to the table willing to trade. This desire has been my sole driving force this election. I hope the GOP can pull it off.
#3592 Re: The Garden » US Politics Thread » 496 weeks ago
Randall Flagg wrote:misterID wrote:So is the GOP, though. It's officially the party of Breitbart. I can see a purple coalition starting from this, centrist democrats and republicans. I will say that if the big message democrats get out of this is that they need to go even farther left, like Gavin Newsom and Elizabeth Warren, then yeah, the party is going into the dark ages. But going by wheat the Rustbelt dems are saying today, that's not what they're thinking.
But these four years are going to be a clusterfuck.
The GOP is still recovering from its neocon mistake. Trump and the tea party have nothing in common but anger. The GOP is going to move towards its Rockefeller era. Socially conservative issues that stemmed from the Bible thumpers just aren't popular anymore. Trump held up a Rainbow flag! He made an appeal to LGBT people in his convention speech.
As others have said, the left went too far. Trying to compare trans people with marriage equality was a bridge too far. Most Republicans aren't even against abortion, they just don't think it should be a form of birth control.
The population is behind Trump in immigration. The country doesn't want an open border. They're with Trump on taking care of America first. We heard Obama and Clinton make speeches about every group in and outside the US besides white males. Like the article Art posted on SLC's forum, every identity group was ok except white males. You have to feel guilty and apologize for being part of that group.
The Republicans with Trump just won their first culture war. You're absolutely right, if the DNC looks to Warren or Sanders, they're going to do self harm. They look to a Biden or Bloomberg type, they have a great chance of winning in 2020.
But the next 4 years are going to be awesome. All the accusations and labels of treason they've lobbed at the GOP the past 8 years are cemented in cyberspace should they try to shut down D.C. But not a single democrat is necessary to pass legislation for the next 2 years. I hope they decide to work with the GOP. I want the partisanship to end. But they drew first blood. They crossed the forbidden line. If the GOP returns the favor, they have no one to blame but themselves.
Republicans laid the ground work for an obstructionist agenda, one Trent Lott started. They just said, when they were sure Trump would lose, they vowed not to vote on Hillary's supreme court nominee for four years and wait until the next election. They stated that. It worked for them, so why not? Filibuster everything and wait Trump out. I don't want to see it, but if that's the game plan I can't blame them. They can't rely on Hillary hate anymore, he's the most disliked president already... They can just wait.
I hadn't heard of any push to prevent a vote if Clinton won. I disagreed with the GOP not voting on Obama's nominee. But the Dems yanked the filibuster in 2012. They crossed that line. If they try to stop everything, the GOP will do the same. Then the DNC will officially have no power for the next 2 years. If they want to be relegated to living air filters, so be it. I hope that's not the case though. They're in no position to bargain or make demands.
#3593 Re: The Garden » US Politics Thread » 496 weeks ago
Randall Flagg wrote:slcpunk wrote:Not everybody is going to vote for Clinton, and then come back and gloat that Trump won the election like you did.
Your behavior is puzzling. Not long ago you posted a lengthy narrative about why voting for Hillary was ultimately the best option even though you were a conservative. The moment it appeared Trump may win you jumped back over the fence and acted like you were with him the whole time. Doesn't say much for your convictions. Guess it's more about winning?
That's a bit unfair. Look at my post on your forum. I specifically called out that my support for Clinton (which I stand by) wasn't an abandonment of my values. I'm very nervous how Trump will handle international agreements. I HATE Russia. But if working with them is in the best interest of America in some capacity, do it.
But you think after all my posts and issues with the DNC, that I wouldn't be estatic to see the party implode? After you and others were celebrating the supposed end of the GOP? You guys thought you had it in the bag. That America was on your side and 2004 was a fluke.
States that haven't been red since Reagan became red last night. The DNC is in shambles. Yea, I'm enjoying this.
So is the GOP, though. It's officially the party of Breitbart. I can see a purple coalition starting from this, centrist democrats and republicans. I will say that if the big message democrats get out of this is that they need to go even farther left, like Gavin Newsom and Elizabeth Warren, then yeah, the party is going into the dark ages. But going by wheat the Rustbelt dems are saying today, that's not what they're thinking.
But these four years are going to be a clusterfuck.
The GOP is still recovering from its neocon mistake. Trump and the tea party have nothing in common but anger. The GOP is going to move towards its Rockefeller era. Socially conservative issues that stemmed from the Bible thumpers just aren't popular anymore. Trump held up a Rainbow flag! He made an appeal to LGBT people in his convention speech.
As others have said, the left went too far. Trying to compare trans people with marriage equality was a bridge too far. Most Republicans aren't even against abortion, they just don't think it should be a form of birth control.
The population is behind Trump in immigration. The country doesn't want an open border. They're with Trump on taking care of America first. We heard Obama and Clinton make speeches about every group in and outside the US besides white males. Like the article Art posted on SLC's forum, every identity group was ok except white males. You have to feel guilty and apologize for being part of that group.
The Republicans with Trump just won their first culture war. You're absolutely right, if the DNC looks to Warren or Sanders, they're going to do self harm. They look to a Biden or Bloomberg type, they have a great chance of winning in 2020.
But the next 4 years are going to be awesome. All the accusations and labels of treason they've lobbed at the GOP the past 8 years are cemented in cyberspace should they try to shut down D.C. But not a single democrat is necessary to pass legislation for the next 2 years. I hope they decide to work with the GOP. I want the partisanship to end. But they drew first blood. They crossed the forbidden line. If the GOP returns the favor, they have no one to blame but themselves.
#3594 Re: The Garden » US Politics Thread » 496 weeks ago
Randall Flagg wrote:Where did everyone go?
Not everybody is going to vote for Clinton, and then come back and gloat that Trump won the election like you did.
Your behavior is puzzling. Not long ago you posted a lengthy narrative about why voting for Hillary was ultimately the best option even though you were a conservative. The moment it appeared Trump may win you jumped back over the fence and acted like you were with him the whole time. Doesn't say much for your convictions. Guess it's more about winning?
That's a bit unfair. Look at my post on your forum. I specifically called out that my support for Clinton (which I stand by) wasn't an abandonment of my values. I'm very nervous how Trump will handle international agreements. I HATE Russia. But if working with them is in the best interest of America in some capacity, do it.
But you think after all my posts and issues with the DNC, that I wouldn't be estatic to see the party implode? After you and others were celebrating the supposed end of the GOP? You guys thought you had it in the bag. That America was on your side and 2004 was a fluke.
States that haven't been red since Reagan became red last night. The DNC is in shambles. Yea, I'm enjoying this.
#3595 Re: The Garden » US Politics Thread » 496 weeks ago
Randall Flagg wrote:Axl S wrote:To James and Flagg: Do you guys have something against Transexuals?
You phrased it as:
It's not about people wanting it. My question is: Why do you guys NOT want them and are against them?
Bathrooms in general been split is starting to become redundant. If the reasoning for it is to protect each gender from unwanted sexual advances of the other then what gets done about gay and lesbian people?
Because I believe Transgendered to be mentally ill as all the medical books agree. You can't 'feel' like a man or a woman. And you sure as hell can't change your sex based on what you feel that day. It's complete nonsense unsupported by any research. Yes, they have a problem. Yes, we should show them empathy and compassion. Yes, they need help. But that doesn't mean we should pay to let them butcher themselves (have you read the studies that show no improvement for those who undergo surgery) and we sure as fuck should not be letting 6 year olds start hormone therapy because their mommy and daddy are enlightened liberals.
If I told you I identified as a shark or Jesus Christ and demanded you not only address me as such, but alter the laws and way society functions to accomodate me, you'd call me fucking insane. So why should we pretend that men can magically become women because an exceptionally small minority of the population has a bonafide mental illness can ignore that they're ill?
Dress in all the lingerie you want. If you can afford the surgery, go for it. But don't expect me to pretend someone with a cock and balls is a woman.
When are YOU paying for it?
Who are YOU to dictate how OTHER people raise their kids?
And finally who cares? If you meet someone who is wearing women's clothing and they are biologically male but say they are woman, why do you care. Are they interfering in your life. Doing anything that affects you day to day. Or is it just you don't like seeing and hearing about it?James Lofton wrote:The problem was the mainstreaming of it. In all previous decades, trannies existed just fine. They were an outer fringe minority and treated as such. It wasn't an issue. Now they want it mainstream and for some reason expected everyone to consider it peaches and cream. It's NOT peaches and cream.
Same thing with the genderfluid nonsense. They expected people to just sit back and let five year old boys wear dresses to school pretending to be a girl just because his idiotic parents want him to be a girl.
Fuck that nonsense. Its time for some normalcy to be brought back.
No one cares what trannies do as long as they do it in the privacy of their own homes.Stop calling them trannies. FFS.
And basically, again your complaint is that you have to see and hear about this stuff and that bothers you. Not that it actually interferes with your life in anyway. From your POV they are fine as long as they are out of sight and out of mind.
Also, why do there have to be clothes for men and clothes for women. If a boy sees a dress and thinks that looks cool, why shouldn't he be allowed to like it. Are we just supoosed to tell him he's wrong and keep giving him GI JOE figures until he likes the "right" stuff.
Sorry guys, I just don't get how any of this shit is affecting your lives and why it bothers the two of you.
Have you done much research on this subject or just browsing articles on Salon celebrating diversity? Gender dysmorphia is a bonafide mental illness. The vast, vast majority of transgendered also suffer from depression and have the highest suicide rate. As a result, most are incredibly poor and rely on medicaid. If they were to remove this from the mental illness list, medicaid would no longer cover their surgery. The statistics and research don't show any positive net benefit to having the surgery, and if you've been paying attention, "appearing" as a woman isn't a requirement. That's why Harvard voted to put maxi pads in mens bathrooms - a penis is no longer a tell tale sign of being a man, but apparently a bleeding vagina now is.
Child abuse is a thing. A 6 year old has no understanding of sex or the made up concept of gender identity. These are kids in kindergarten and while incredibly rare, parents are finding quack doctors who think it's okay to permanently alter their body chemistry on the guess that the kid is trans-gendered (as opposed to gay which numerous studies have suggested is the case). If I had a 14 year old lesbian daughter and chose to send her away to pray away the gay, would you still say "Why do you care. It's his kid!"?
I don't care what they do in public or private. I care that of a guy with a duck dynasty beard can walk into a teenage girls' locker room and claim to be a woman that day. I care that my tax dollars are going to fund surgeries that are not based in any sound science but are appealing to progressive fantasies on how biology works. And I really care that people are being programmed to call anyone who doesn't toe the line a bigot.
#3596 Re: The Garden » US Politics Thread » 496 weeks ago
To James and Flagg: Do you guys have something against Transexuals?
You phrased it as:
Kinda like how they tell us everyone and their grandma wants a tranny bathroom even though we know damn good and well nobody does
It's not about people wanting it. My question is: Why do you guys NOT want them and are against them?
Bathrooms in general been split is starting to become redundant. If the reasoning for it is to protect each gender from unwanted sexual advances of the other then what gets done about gay and lesbian people?
Because I believe Transgendered to be mentally ill as all the medical books agree. You can't 'feel' like a man or a woman. And you sure as hell can't change your sex based on what you feel that day. It's complete nonsense unsupported by any research. Yes, they have a problem. Yes, we should show them empathy and compassion. Yes, they need help. But that doesn't mean we should pay to let them butcher themselves (have you read the studies that show no improvement for those who undergo surgery) and we sure as fuck should not be letting 6 year olds start hormone therapy because their mommy and daddy are enlightened liberals.
If I told you I identified as a shark or Jesus Christ and demanded you not only address me as such, but alter the laws and way society functions to accomodate me, you'd call me fucking insane. So why should we pretend that men can magically become women because an exceptionally small minority of the population has a bonafide mental illness can ignore that they're ill?
Dress in all the lingerie you want. If you can afford the surgery, go for it. But don't expect me to pretend someone with a cock and balls is a woman.
#3597 Re: The Garden » US Politics Thread » 496 weeks ago
Mitch owes me no apology and I'd prefer if my service wasn't used as a credibility point. Plenty of people saw much worse than I and have a completely different viewpoint.
#3598 Re: The Garden » US Politics Thread » 496 weeks ago
Where did everyone go? For weeks this forum was filled with loyal Clinton supporters celebrating their intelligence and mocking those who thought Trump was a viable option. Go back to the 2008 thread and see how all of us who opposed Obama said he was now our president and we'd support him. Why am I not seeing that in 2016?
#3599 Re: The Garden » US Politics Thread » 496 weeks ago
I love when people try to use education (or lack tehreof) as an excuse for why their candidate lost. The least educated demographic in this country are Blacks who have a <50% high school graduation rate. And they overwhelmingly vote Democratic and have for 100 years. When the least educated are a core part of your constituency, you lose all credibility attack the intelligence/education of the other party.
#3600 Re: The Garden » US Politics Thread » 496 weeks ago
A Private Eye wrote:Unbelievable result. Will be interesting to see how this plays out. He has a blank canvas in a way, as his campaign seems to have been based around nice sound bites and saying stuffs going to be great again he can pretty much go in whatever direction he pleases.
Never ceases to amaze how powerful a slogan 'lets get our country back' seems to be to certain folks. They used it for brexit without anybody really stopping and asking what it means and it's worked for Trump as well. I guess both sides of the pond are about to find out.
Our country back from whom?
From the Democratic party that has been importing voters since the 60s. No more anchor babies - the only reason they get citizenship now is because Johnson declared them citizens. Trump can change all of that and Congress will back him. Your dreams of turning texas Blue by an open gate of new DNC voters just shit the bed.
It's time to get on board. The Democratic party had its ass knocked the fuck out last night. No more pretending men can become women with the stroke of a pen. All those illiterate Syrians Clinton wanted to bring in, they'll never step on our soil.
8 years ago you all claimed the GOP was done for a generation. How many pundits and experts predicted complete Democratic control for the next 30 years? Everything Obama accomplished is going to be erased with a couple signatures. Obama will be a President kids spend 2 days on during February every year.
So do what all of us did 8 years ago when you guys thought Obama was going to be the 2nd coming. Support the president and look at each issue on its own. The Democrats already set precedent by removing the filibuster. Obama expanded the role of the executive. Time to reap what you sow.
In the end, all the fake shock and awe around Trump wasn't enough to fool most of America into recognizing Hillary Clinton was as corrupt, manipulative and secretive as any candidate has ever been. Her name and face will never appear on any currency and she'll stain the credibility of her party for the next 10 years.
