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#3611 Re: The Garden » Wiki Leaks » 754 weeks ago
When two persons from opposite sides of the rabbit hole communicates, there are bound to be misunderstandings 
I'm no expert in Irish history, but as a history buff I am well aware of the long standing conflict. On the other hand I do have extensive knowledge of government subversion and rebellions, past and present. So when I see the same old government agents fingerprint another domestic rebellion I'm bound to make certain conclusions. Am I certain? No, but I am confident. To the point of my life.
And my focus on the more clandestine aspects of this issue does not mean I don't appreciate the full context, it just means that is what I'm interested in. You can offer a different opinion if you want. Your current reply is more indictive than it is constructive.
If everybody is aware of the criminals in your government, why don't you do something about it? Like in my country I don't think you really know how crooked they really are. It's not part of the process, it's criminal and deliberate.
#3612 Re: The Garden » Wiki Leaks » 754 weeks ago
How about you check it out for yourself? It's not like I have a secret document. All of this is public if you want to see it. But alright, just at the top of my head.
There's not going to be a real investigation. The focus is to keep the people calm. They don't need to know everything - Chief of the CIA 2001
Lemme see, what does the army intimidating lawful strikes have to do with a dictatorship? You are aware, are you not, that your Queen is a sovereign autocrat? That it's not just ceremonial? You do know that Britain is barely a sovereign nation under the EU, an unelected elitist supernational entity?
Dictatorships are not tanks in the streets and concentration camps. That's called war. A dictatorship is pretty much a normal (these days I guess that's pretty much limited to Switzerland and Iceland) country as long as you go along with whatever goverment tells you to do. It's not like guys like Murdoch with a majority ownership of your media can sway public opinion in any way. It's not like he hasn't already admitted to doing that.
I think it's you who have been watching too much 24. Guys like Bauer are the real terrorists. Government trained, tax payer paid. That's both documented and logical.
#3613 Re: The Garden » Wiki Leaks » 754 weeks ago
while it is true the provo's (provisional IRA, not the 'real' or 'official IRA' who were a much smaller band of terrorists) were infiltrated by british agents it's incorrect to say that was the reason the IRA began to lose support with the people.
the horrendous acts of violence, particularly upon civilians, in the publics mind far outweighed any kinda of nationalist 'cause'. yea there were spike in public support for the Provo's - internment & the hunger strikes but the majority always believed in peace & democracy.firstly, the majority of nationalists (who are mainly comprised of Catholics) were never supportive of the IRA.
that however is not to dismiss the support they had. they simply wouldn't have been able to function & survive without people hiding them or funding them.the main factors in the IRA's eventual cessation & giving up of their weapons were: a war-weariness of the people & the recognition the violence had reached a stalemate - that the British were not going to leave the 6 counties through war. there were other factors, but the British had been secretly talking with the Provo's from the 70's (i think, possibly the 80's - my memory is fuzzy on this)
however, most important in undermining the nationalist cause for re-unification is of course financial. it makes more sense for nationalists (& catholics) to be part of the union of GB than it does to rejoin the 26 in a free state.
during the 90's the british government was pumping 6/7 BILLION per year into NI - which was substantially more than any other region of the UK. & i'm p sure the budget compared to other UK regions is still wildly out of proportion.things are a LOT different now than even ten years ago., nevermind in the 20's - 80's..
in this era of fairness (& even the use of affirmative action - such as the aim of having a disproportionate number of catholics in the police force...) the idea of freedom & a cause seem a lot less important. Ireland will only be reunited when it makes financial sense for all involved.& i wouldn't say it was ever a military dictatorship. yea there was rampant discrimination & human rights abuses, gerrymandering & exclusion of catholics/nationalists from government. but those in power weren't military people, they were simply unionists & loyalists who hated catholics & nationalists.
While we don't know all the details and never will, I think you misunderstand the role of BI. They are not there just to bust people. They usually make sure the group they are in in fact does carry out their actions and more than once. Meaning they were themselves responsible for the escalation in violence. In what degree is hard to say, but if I had to put money on it I'd go for the over. They are professionals after all. That is what they do. Subversion, destruction, infiltration.
I'm not sure the government even considered it a real conflict. I suspect, as have been done so many times in the past, they fostered it so they could bring in anti freedom legislation and distract the population from other issues. We know the CIA carried out such operations in Europe (Gladio and Stay Behind), with support from my Government. Without knowing for sure I'd say Britain's no less cynical. If they can chemically experiment on the public for 40 years from the sky, why not. The peace broker was an agent, was he not?
Now that all that's in place, of course the money's flowing in. Now they gotta build their "success". Looks like Colony 101 to me.
About the military dictatorship, if things were worse in the 70s and this is now, I gotta wonder...
The military has been asked to prepare to man Britain's borders during the mass walkout by public sector workers, according to Sky sources.
Up to 18,000 immigration officials are expected to be among those joining the industrial action on November 30 over public sector pensions.
The military have been told to ready themselves to step in if necessary and civil servants have also been approached to help out.
Take your pension, send in the army if you complain?
I'm sorry, but it's high time you get to know the absolute criminals in your government. I can't do much more, I got my own problems at home with a fresh inside job.
#3614 Re: The Garden » Wiki Leaks » 754 weeks ago
I've lived in Northern Ireland most of my life, I study Irish and European history in Belfast Metropolitan college. Most of the people on my course are Catholics. I didn't live through the 70s, but I can tell you in my life time, over the past 23 years milltary dictatorship my ass.
Yeah, they've toned it down after they broke the resistance. But the people in the 70s knew, they didn't martyr themselves just because they didn't like the english. Discrimination, army troops in the streets, illegal arrests, torture.
Then british intelligence went in and amped the whole thing up 300 degrees, making the IRA lose support with the people. The top leaders were AGENTS.
#3615 Re: The Garden » Wiki Leaks » 754 weeks ago
Atari is a Northern Irishman from Northern Ireland, you there who are informing him of the suffering of the Irish people under this military dictatorship, where are you?
Just like most americans know their government is run by criminals? Place of residence doesn't mean shit.
#3616 Re: The Garden » Wiki Leaks » 755 weeks ago
Yeah, because of protestant colonists. Sure, they love England.
You must be english when you try to diminish the suffering of the Irish people. The irish don't want to live under a military dictatorship like they do under the Queen. That's basically what the freedom part is about.
It should also be mentioned a lot of those bombs were the responsibility of your own government. They had infiltrated these groups for years. All the terror played right into the hand of the government. Like arme fraktion in germany. Search "operation Gladio" and "operation stay behind".
#3617 Re: The Garden » BEYOND offensive truck in Detroit » 755 weeks ago
"Trader to america"
#3618 The Sunset Strip » Omar Rodriguez Lopez » 756 weeks ago
- polluxlm
- Replies: 0
You bucketheads might like some of this stuff.
#3619 Re: Guns N' Roses » Gene Simmons says ‘a good beating’ would have helped Axl Rose » 756 weeks ago
Gene should stick to his American Idol version of heavy metal and stfu. Axl wasn't even that much into drugs.
I'll give him one thing though, he's probably made the most out of the least talent this century and the last.
#3620 The Garden » EU was never meant to be a democracy » 756 weeks ago
- polluxlm
- Replies: 1
The EU's architects never meant it to be a democracy
The rise of a "technocracy" was always part of the plan for Europe.
So, as headlines scream that vain bids to save the euro threaten us with “Armageddon”, the EU’s ruling elite has toppled two more elected prime ministers, to replace them with technocratic officials who can be trusted to do Brussels’s bidding.
The new Greek prime minister, Lucas Papademos, was the man who, as head of Greece’s central bank, fiddled the figures to enable Greece to get into the euro (against the rules) in the first place – before being rewarded with a senior post in the European Central Bank. He is no more democratically elected than Mario Monti, who will most likely be Italy’s new prime minister and had hurriedly to be made a “senator for life” to qualify him for the job. Monti’s main qualification is that, as a former senior EU Commissioner, he has long been a member of the Brussels elite himself.
One of the few pleasures of watching this self-inflicted shambles unfolding day by day has been to see the panjandrums of the Today programme, James Naughtie and John Humphrys, at last beginning to ask whether the EU is a democratic institution. Had they studied the history of the object of their admiration, they might long ago have realised that the “European project” was never intended to be a democratic institution.
The idea first conceived back in the 1920s by two senior officials of the League of Nations – Jean Monnet and Arthur Salter, a British civil servant – was a United States of Europe, ruled by a government of unelected technocrats like themselves. Two things were anathema to them: nation states with the power of veto (which they had seen destroy the League of Nations) and any need to consult the wishes of the people in elections.
