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#3691 Re: The Garden » 2016 Presidential Election Thread » 503 weeks ago
Smoking Guns wrote:God bless Gov. Cuomo, unlike Deblasio he can call this terrorism.
Muslim is the suspect.
But a citizen. Still, Trump will say we need to keep out refugees, when in fact this person wasn't a refugee. He won't care, and most people won't care. It is what it is and we'll all believe what we want.
My personal belief is Trump is creating enemies for the U.S. at a rapid rate by continually condemning all races/religions with his language. He wants to ban all Muslims, so guess what? All Muslims are going to hate us. He calls all Mexicans rapists and thugs, so they all hate us. It's not good. Very sad, as he might say.
You're right he is a citizen. But how did he become a citizen. Was he someone we admitted during the 12 year war in Afghanistan? If so, should we have admitted him. That's the complaint you aren't recognizing and injecting racism into the conversation as a substitute. Trump's argument is that we should heavily vet people before we allow them in. Have you done any research into how we're vetting this refugees or whatever term you want to give them? We weren't even looking at their social media. In a country that is war torn with no real records, how are we supposed to make sure we're not letting people in who have a history of violence or strongly follow Sharia and will struggle and ultimately lash out once admitted to the US. "17 year olds" with beards longer than the Duck Dynasty guys are being admitted into Europe as minors. When one of these refugees rapes an American, assaults an American, riots in the street or blows up/shoots up a mall, who will be held accountable? Unlike every other sane country, we for the moment grant citizenship to anyone who drops a child on our soil. So once these refugees enter, they only need to breed to have a permanent ticket.
So yes, we should thoroughly vet any person who wants to enter this nation. A single American shouldn't be inconvenienced so someone from a very foreign culture doesn't have to suck it up and defend their country like Americans have been doing since 1776. I'm all for having an open immigration policy, but people coming here should improve America just as much as America improves their quality of life.
#3692 Re: The Garden » 2016 Presidential Election Thread » 503 weeks ago
Randall Flagg wrote:mitchejw wrote:Did you get your masters from Trump U?
Nah. Falwell university. Still waiting to hear your contributions to this country since you felt obligated to attack mine.
I never said I contributed anything. You did....you expect special or better Treatment because you have lineage here. You're the one making outrageous statements like black people should be grateful for slavery because they didn't have to live in Africa anymore.
I don't claim anything as far as contribution is concerned. I am a white man who is not all that sure this country is so great for anything other than making money.
I see people abused and suffering HERE at the hands of other, more privileged Americans - but we wanna focus on ISIS?
I feel like my enemies are in my own neighborhood....they are the birthers making back room, good OL' boy deals congratulating themselves and saying things like those N*****s should be thankful we brought then her.
I ain't down for that....no matter how white I am....
I suggest you improve your reading comprehension, because I said no such thing. I'm not owed anything or worthy of special consideration because of what I did, nor is anyone else. That was my entire point. I'm only guaranteed the rights and protections that all citizens are afforded. Foreigners whom aren't American citizens and didn't enter this country legally aren't afforded those rights. Just as some 25 year old black citizen isn't owed anything because his distant ancestor to which he probably doesn't even know their name, was treated poorly or unfairly. When 70% of blacks in America are born out of wedlock, less than half graduate high school, and as a group, commit more than 50% of all homicides despite only making up 6% (blacks are around 12%, but violent crime is almost exclusively a male crime regardless of ethnicity) of the population. So if your first thought for the woes of the modern black community is "it must be because some distant relative was a slave, so let's afford people with dark pigmentation access to education and jobs we won't offer others who might have actually earned special consideration" rather than "maybe you and your parents should make better decisions", one of us isn't even having an informed or logical inner-monologue.
With that said, if you're not willing to refute my comments with facts or informed opinions, I don't see a need to continue to engage you in an intelligent discussion. I'm not interested in your personal morality or what you "feel" is happening. I participate in these political discussions because there's a lot of smart people out there who have informed opinions that challenge my own beliefs. I want to improve myself, so by engaging in dialogue with others, I learn their point of view and have my own opinions and beliefs tested and challenged. But I expect people to have actually researched and questioned their own narrative before they attack me as an ignoramus.
#3693 Re: The Garden » 2016 Presidential Election Thread » 503 weeks ago
Randall Flagg wrote:mitchejw wrote:What the fuck are you blathering about?
Did you copy and paste this from some where?
You're as self righteous as Trump, you're a match made in heaven.
I wish to remind you that you, personally, have done nothing. You have contributed nothing to this country. I think you need more reminders.
Haha. You're a real intellectual heavyweight. I served 9 years in the Army. I fought in Iraq. I paid more in federal taxes than the poverty line for a family of 4 last year. So tell me again what you've done for this country. Just another fucking loser.
And thanks for the compliment. When you hold a masters degree in political science, have traveled all over the world and have a job that pays 6 figures, you're forced to be able to articulate ideas the masses struggle with. Don't worry, I'm sure you can find something from Salon that will do your thinking for you.
Did you get your masters from Trump U?
Nah. Falwell university. Still waiting to hear your contributions to this country since you felt obligated to attack mine.
#3694 Re: The Garden » 2016 Presidential Election Thread » 503 weeks ago
Randall Flagg wrote:Hajis just set off bombs in NYC and NJ and now they've stabbed people in Minnesota. Now remember Clinton is the one who wants to follow Merkel by bringing in 100k of these savages. Do you still wonder why Drumpf's support is swelling?
Well this got horribly racist really quick. Savages? "Hajis"? Anyone who wants to label a bunch of refugees who've had their homes destroyed as savages is the real savage.
Haji isn't a racist term. Or I guess every single American soldier is a racist. And they are savages. Look at their literacy rates and beliefs compared to the west. I don't want them in my back yard, but I take it since you're no savage you're willing to open your home to them.
Always someone else has to sacrifice for your morals. Never require anything on your part.
#3695 Re: The Garden » 2016 Presidential Election Thread » 504 weeks ago
Randall Flagg wrote:misterID wrote:Eh, no one should be thankful that their ancestors were part of Holocaust because it allowed them to be part of an industrial revolution... And I don't think your comparisons are really fair. As a southerner, a son of confederate veterans, who actually has a tender spot in my heart for the rebel flag, not only should thery not be grateful, but descendants of slaves should get reparations, or some form of it. (Please don't say shit about food stamps equating reparations, because that's a line of racism that can't be back tracked)
I hate Trump because he's an idiot, not because he's politically incorrect (watch Bill Maher's show last night when his campaign manager was faced with every lie he has told) but I hate it worse that my beautiful southern people are the most gullible people on the face of the fucking earth.
I didn't say holocaust. And to suggest slavery is comparable to the complete genocide of a people is not only inaccurate, it cheapens the intentional actions taken against Jews and other "undesirables".
But why shouldn't someone acknowledge the positives of tragedies in the moment? Those who suffered the tragedy of Hiroshima suffered greatly. But the American and Japanese who didn't perish in the forthcoming land battle were happy to be alive. The millions who suffered and perished in WW2 certainly didn't enjoy their pain. But can anyone deny that the West is much safer and happier as a result of the conclusion of that war? All parties engaged in that war are better off now than before. They have 21st century technology and food at their disposal.
Blacks aren't due reparations because they haven't suffered. Not only are people not owed anything for what occurred legally at the time, they're not owed anything for something that never was inflicted on them. If any American Black was owed anything, it'd be those who suffered under Jim Crow and they alone. And only for the grievances they directly received. Jim Crow was declared unconstitutional, ergo it never was legally enforced. Slavery was never ruled unconstitutional, and only is so because of the 13th amendment. I'm not making a moral argument for slavery, but pointing out you can't retroactively and selectively try to apply modern customs and law to events that ended centuries ago. Should Egypt provide reparations to every Jew? Should England pay reparations to every American because they illegally exerted their control over us?
Reparations are de facto given to blacks in this country just as they are to you and me. Whatever hardships our ancestors suffered to build the word we live in, is paid to their descendants by being able to live in this great country. Poverty in America is luxury in many of the countries most Blacks' cousins in Africa presently reside.
So to acknowledge that something horrific had positive outcomes isn't politically incorrect or factually wrong. It's pointing out that bad, horrible shit has happened to every race or creed since the dawn of man, and all of us are better off because humanity is driven to improve its situation in life.
What the fuck are you blathering about?
Did you copy and paste this from some where?
You're as self righteous as Trump, you're a match made in heaven.
I wish to remind you that you, personally, have done nothing. You have contributed nothing to this country. I think you need more reminders.
Haha. You're a real intellectual heavyweight. I served 9 years in the Army. I fought in Iraq. I paid more in federal taxes than the poverty line for a family of 4 last year. So tell me again what you've done for this country. Just another fucking loser.
And thanks for the compliment. When you hold a masters degree in political science, have traveled all over the world and have a job that pays 6 figures, you're forced to be able to articulate ideas the masses struggle with. Don't worry, I'm sure you can find something from Salon that will do your thinking for you.
#3696 Re: The Garden » 2016 Presidential Election Thread » 504 weeks ago
Hajis just set off bombs in NYC and NJ and now they've stabbed people in Minnesota. Now remember Clinton is the one who wants to follow Merkel by bringing in 100k of these savages. Do you still wonder why Trump's support is swelling?
#3697 Re: The Garden » 2016 Presidential Election Thread » 504 weeks ago
Eh, no one should be thankful that their ancestors were part of Holocaust because it allowed them to be part of an industrial revolution... And I don't think your comparisons are really fair. As a southerner, a son of confederate veterans, who actually has a tender spot in my heart for the rebel flag, not only should thery not be grateful, but descendants of slaves should get reparations, or some form of it. (Please don't say shit about food stamps equating reparations, because that's a line of racism that can't be back tracked)
I hate Trump because he's an idiot, not because he's politically incorrect (watch Bill Maher's show last night when his campaign manager was faced with every lie he has told) but I hate it worse that my beautiful southern people are the most gullible people on the face of the fucking earth.
I didn't say holocaust. And to suggest slavery is comparable to the complete genocide of a people is not only inaccurate, it cheapens the intentional actions taken against Jews and other "undesirables".
But why shouldn't someone acknowledge the positives of tragedies in the moment? Those who suffered the tragedy of Hiroshima suffered greatly. But the American and Japanese who didn't perish in the forthcoming land battle were happy to be alive. The millions who suffered and perished in WW2 certainly didn't enjoy their pain. But can anyone deny that the West is much safer and happier as a result of the conclusion of that war? All parties engaged in that war are better off now than before. They have 21st century technology and food at their disposal.
Blacks aren't due reparations because they haven't suffered. Not only are people not owed anything for what occurred legally at the time, they're not owed anything for something that never was inflicted on them. If any American Black was owed anything, it'd be those who suffered under Jim Crow and they alone. And only for the grievances they directly received. Jim Crow was declared unconstitutional, ergo it never was legally enforced. Slavery was never ruled unconstitutional, and only is so because of the 13th amendment. I'm not making a moral argument for slavery, but pointing out you can't retroactively and selectively try to apply modern customs and law to events that ended centuries ago. Should Egypt provide reparations to every Jew? Should England pay reparations to every American because they illegally exerted their control over us?
Reparations are de facto given to blacks in this country just as they are to you and me. Whatever hardships our ancestors suffered to build the word we live in, is paid to their descendants by being able to live in this great country. Poverty in America is luxury in many of the countries most Blacks' cousins in Africa presently reside.
So to acknowledge that something horrific had positive outcomes isn't politically incorrect or factually wrong. It's pointing out that bad, horrible shit has happened to every race or creed since the dawn of man, and all of us are better off because humanity is driven to improve its situation in life.
#3698 Re: The Garden » 2016 Presidential Election Thread » 504 weeks ago
Randall Flagg wrote:I guess it's also racist to point out that had Europeans not conquered the Americas, the continent wouldn't have any of the first world institutions that now dominate it.
It's not racist, but it's pretty ridiculous. You're telling us what would have happened if they had not? How on earth would you arrive at such a conclusion?
They lacked a written language and domesticated animals. If you have a realistic scenario how they'd gain centuries of information on their own, I'd love to hear it.
#3699 Re: The Garden » 2016 Presidential Election Thread » 504 weeks ago
What country in Africa does the normal citizen have a better quality of life than a black citizen in America?
#3700 Re: The Garden » 2016 Presidential Election Thread » 504 weeks ago
Cramer wrote:Randall Flagg wrote:Every black person in America should be grateful their ancestors were slaves. Name a single African country where your average black is remotely as comfortable and privledged as your average black in America. The Latinos are no different.
.I was originally surprised you were voting for Trump to be honest. Now...not so much.
He's said much worse earlier in the thread.
I'm only surprised people didn't pick up on what he was suggesting a decade ago long before Trump.
Fuck you. I've never said anything that wasn't objectively true. Proving my point once again that when intellectual lightweights are backed into a corner, your only response is to pass out accusations of racism and bigotry. How about you try proving what I said was incorrect. And when you can't, maybe you should reassess the nonsense you consider the basis for your world views.
