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#4321 Re: The Garden » Mitt's suspends campaign » 918 weeks ago
Randall Flagg wrote:If you can articulate a thought out argument why any Democrat would win against McCain, I'd like to hear it.
Haven't we already covered that several times?:haha:
The economy is in the fucking toilet. Blank checks being used for unnecessary war. Spending at an all time high. Dollar losing value. An unsustainable debt. Massive trade deficits. Biggest government expansion in history.
A republican administration is the cause of this.
McCain=republican(well, in name anyways).
republican=more of the same.
Get it?
The republicans were losing this election regardless of who was nominated. The 08 election is about the Bush failure, and I hate to break it to you, but the republicans aren't being rewarded for that failure.
I truly don't think you get it. You have yet to explain how electing a Democrat will fix the economy. It's not as if they'll change current fiscal policy. They'll continue to tax and spend. Hillary or Obama will not be getting us out of Iraq any time soon. That is the simple reality and you need to accept that. They will being to implement their social plans which will jack up the budget trillions more. You can delude yourself into thinking that only the extremely wealthy will pay for this, but you'd be mistaken. There is no such thing as a free lunch and we're all gonna have to pay for the "change" Democrats want. Match that with the fact that gas ain't going down any time soon and I fail to see how the economy will be magically better. The only way to assist the economy, which isn't as bad as you and others want to believe it is, is to cut spending and apply a tax to the wealthy that is proportional to what the middle class pays. I believe if you follow the current stimulus plan, we'll have a surplus in 4 or 5 years. If we elect a fiscal conservative, the economy will boom. Electing Hillary or Obama will be more of the same with wreckless spending.
In the end rhetoric and feel good speeches have no affect on reality.
#4322 Re: The Garden » Mitt's suspends campaign » 918 weeks ago
It will be Obama vs. McCain, which is what I've always said. It will not be Clinton. Mark my words. McCain or any Republican will lose against either one. He'll lose to a larger margin against Obama. There will not be a Repulican president elected in 2008.
Do you care to explain why you believ this or is declaring it so enough? Don't think just because the people you associate with want a Democrat means the rest of the nation agrees. There were certain members who swore Bush would lose in '00 and '04 and look what happened. If you can articulate a thought out argument why any Democrat would win against McCain, I'd like to hear it.
#4323 Re: The Garden » Mitt's suspends campaign » 918 weeks ago
I think the Obama campaign is being little over zealous in their own Democratic delegate count in the end, but I don't think Hillary will have enough to out right take it. I actually see it being slightly in her favor. But I do believe Michican and Florida will eventually be counted and that of course would put her over the edge. I think that because Hillary has won the states in the primary that will ultimately play the deciding factor in the election, the super delegates will nominate her.
The Republicans have an uphill battle regardless, but I see a very real possibility of McCain winning against either candidate, but ecspecially Clinton. Obama will be able to mobilize alot of voters which could certainly tip states like Ohio in his favor.
Honestly, I think Obama should be greatful if he doesn't win this time. For the Democratic party, allowing McCain to win would probably allow them to win decisively in 2012 and many elections to come as Ann Coulter wrote today. The Iraq situation will be much different 4 years from now and the Democratic candidate could focus on issues that would be much more receptive such as socialized medicine.
If the Dems do in fact win this year, the Republicans will have a great chance to win in 2012 and successive elections. Of course either candidate could do great things in 4 years and neutralize the nay sayers.
Anyway, I stand by my prediction I've had for the past 16 months. Clinton vs. McCain with McCain winning in the end.
#4324 Re: The Garden » Mitt's suspends campaign » 918 weeks ago
"Feb. 7 (Bloomberg) -- Barack Obama's advisers are anticipating the possibility of a Democratic presidential race deadlocked past the last primary, and the outcome may hinge on a fight over whether delegations from Florida and Michigan get seats at the party's national convention in Denver.
One scenario prepared for the Illinois senator's campaign and released inadvertently yesterday with another document projects Obama will end up in June with 1,806 of the delegates who select the party's nominee to 1,789 for New York Senator Hillary Clinton. That is short of the number needed to win the nomination.
Obama, speaking with reporters traveling to Omaha on his campaign plane, said he hadn't seen the document. ``I think it's going to be close,'' he said of the nomination battle. ``Down to the wire.''
A candidate needs half of the total delegates plus one. Right now, that figure is 2,025. Any additional convention delegates would raise the amount needed to win nomination.
The Obama forecast doesn't include Florida and Michigan, which were stripped of delegates by the Democratic National Committee for holding early primaries. Clinton won both uncontested and is vowing to fight for those delegates -- which were slated to be a total of 366 -- to be seated when the nominating convention opens on Aug. 25."
http://news.yahoo.com/s/bloomberg/20080 … 2tfwvy9mug
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This is exactly what I have been trying to say.
#4325 Re: The Garden » Mitt's suspends campaign » 918 weeks ago
Last I checked, the number of delegates won was still up in the air. Both sides and many outlest have different numbers. I meant to say "sweeping win", sorry for the typo. You have to look at the states people win, not only delegates because that is what determines the ultimate winner. Secondly, you can't assume that just because someone voted Democrat now means they will in November. While that would most certainly hold true, there are other factors as to why Republicans aren't out in the numbers Dems have been.
#4326 Re: The Garden » Mitt's suspends campaign » 918 weeks ago
I argue that Obama has been neutralized. It was predicted he would have a sweeping wing and he didn't. Clinton won with a decisive victory in California. I won't reference NY because that is her state much like Illinois is Obama's. But more importantly, she won MA which was predicted to goto Obama in the "surge" of momentum from Kennedy, Kerry and whomever their governor is. She was able to hold her own there. Virginia votes next week. Obama picked up a bunch of small states that he has no chance of winning in the general election. That is what you fail to realize. Obama can win the Idaho's until the 2nd coming, but he will never win those states in the general election.
Hillary will still maintain more delegates. If Florida and Michigan's delegates get counted, which there is a move and possibilty they eventually will, you can chalk up more votes to her. Furthermore, the party hard liners are going to side with Clinton in the end with their super delegates. She's delivered the important states. She has brought the party Florida and will probably bring them Ohio in the primaries. If Obama can't do that in his own party, why would they want him to try against McCain who is almost guarunteed Florida and would probably have the edge in Ohio. These are the things Democrats need to be considering in their candidate.
#4327 Re: The Garden » Mitt's suspends campaign » 918 weeks ago
This election is going to be heating up soon. I've been checking polls in Va, Oh and Tx and Clinton leads in all of them. This is truly going to be very interesting because Hillary is gonna be the spin masta trying to attack McCain on his support and strategy for the war. Health care is not going to bring her any votes she wouldn't already get and I don't see how she has any economic leverage on McCain. I believe that if the Democrats would have nominated Obama, they'd have almost sealed the deal, but I don't think that will happen.
Romney dropping out is going to allow McCain to start campaigning now rather than months out. Hopefully Huckabee will bow out graciously and not force McCain to pander to debates. The money will start to pour into the McCain campaign.
#4328 Re: The Garden » The Super Tuesday thread » 918 weeks ago
Clinton getting the nomination will be enough to bring the base out to vote. The GOP knows how to get people out to vote. Combine McCain's more moderate image and he'll attract a substantial more independents than Clinton. If the election is between Clinton and McCain, and I believe it will be, McCain will be the President of the US barring any really stupid scandal on his part.
#4329 Re: The Garden » The Super Tuesday thread » 918 weeks ago
You're not very good at analogies are you? Regan left the Democratic party because it used to be a bunch of hardliners that evolved into the modern feel good and nanny state advocates they have become today. This was in stark contrast to the message of Goldwater Republicans and the core of the GOP. While Bush has certainly deviated from the traditional GOP model, his behavior and spending is very similar to Democrats. So rather than try to cast out the neo-cons (I have never defended them and despise them as much as the most dedicated leftist) from the party, you just happen to join the party that advocates everything Bush did that pissed off the republican base. You don't see how that is completely different than Reagan leaving the Dems? There are plenty of Republicans who disagree with the war and deplore Bush's spending. If you were ever truly a Republican, you'd stay with them. I just find it peculiar when people have moments of clarity when it's the popular thing to do. Millions had such moments leading into the war in Iraq and coincidentally had them again when the war's popularity began to shift. While I can't say with any amount of certainty this applies to you, your logic for voting for Obama is extremely flawed - at least if you were ever a Republican.
#4330 Re: The Garden » The Super Tuesday thread » 918 weeks ago
I don't know, a woman or a black man against an old white guy? I like to think things have changed...but I doubt it. Once again it seem like the Dems aren't even interested in winning.
From your perspective, how are Obama or Clinton any different than McCain?