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#41 Re: Guns N' Roses » Nothin' » 35 weeks ago
Bill Brasky wrote:Blackstar wrote:(Re: Izzy and VR, there apparently Weiland rewrote whatever lyrics Izzy had written on the songs they used from those sessions. From what they have said, they changed the shit out of those songs written with Izzy because Weiland didn't like them).
Couldn't Axl have done the same thing ?
In theory, yes, but the Nothing demo sounded like a song at its very early stages, like a song being "born" and not as something that was under rearrangement.
Anyway, all this talk is kind of "academic", since sp1at said he's sure Nothing is not Down By The Ocean.
I believe you saw my response to Sp1at and that i believe he's reliable i even make correction video on YouTube because of Sp1at's information.
#42 Re: Guns N' Roses » Nothin' » 35 weeks ago
lol “Nothin’” is not and was not “Down by the Ocean” — there are no legit sources ever hinting at that, the continued insinuation otherwise is a desperate stretch.
Also “down by the sea” isn’t a lyric in Nothin
It’s completely rational to think “Monsters” is “Soul Monster” which was “Leave Me Alone” because it has Beltrami’s orchestration on it and he confirmed that he worked on Leave Me Alone.
A stormy sea , a reckless sea , a endless sea are lyrics in Nothin'
Here's a post of mine from badapplesforum
Once again here's what you're basing that off of https://www.mygnrforum.com/topic/226301 … nt-5045353
Sadly he doesn't remember Monsters former name. He does remember a song being quite long but unsure if it was The General or another one. But if it was, it's not The General we have, as apparently there was a longer song he worked on (but he's unsure whether that long song was The General back then, maybe it's Seven or another one we haven't heard).
Just to be clear, he did listen to the leaks, I wanted to make sure he understood and could compare with what he remembers, and what we have has been modified from when he worked on those, so I guess it's hard for him to properly remember specific former names. But he does recognize those two songs & his work, and they weren't a single song back then (just like we have a hard time understanding how they could form a single song, as it is). The instrumental part isn't meant to form a continuity between this version of The General, and this version of Monsters, both instrumental were specific creations of his. Each 8 songs he's worked on/arranged had a specific arrangement meant for a particular song.
Per Marco Beltrami He can't Remember if Monsters is Soul Monsters according to post by D..... lmfao.
Let's also address the myth that Marco Beltrami only worked on 8 songs :Mel:
"[GNR] was sort of just work for hire. [...] I met with Axl and he played me these songs, asked me my ideas about them, and I told him what I thought they needed. They gave me four songs to orchestrate. [...] A song called 'Seven,' which is the one [...] I actually wrote a guitar part [on]. There was one called 'Thyme,' one called 'The General,' one called 'Leave Me Alone.'" (Marco Beltrami, IGN, 07/20/03)
So that's 4 correct ?
1.The General
2.Soul Monster aka Leave Me Alone
3.Seven
4.Thyme
Now according to Chinese Democracy official liner notes
http://albumlinernotes.com/Chinese_Democracy.html
5.Street of Dream's
6.This I Love
7.Madagascar
8.TWAT
9.Prostitute
That's a total of 9 we know of
But D.... conversation with Marco Beltrami only states he worked on 8. Something seems very fishy there. So either Marco really can't accurately remember what he worked on 2 decades ago or fuckery is about.
I guess none of copy paste mygnr news reporters bothered to fact check things.
There's more if you would like to educate yourself here's a link Post in thread 'Unreleased Chinese Democracy Era Songs Definitive List & Information' https://badapplesforum.com/newforum/thr … post-89283
#43 Re: Guns N' Roses » Nothin' » 35 weeks ago
Bill Brasky wrote:Blackstar wrote:It's correct, except maybe that Duff has the DAT tapes, because a few years ago a DAT from those 1995 Izzy/Duff sessions (containing two of the demos, Tooth Puller and Machine Gun) was found forgotten in a storage space alongside other Duff related stuff. There was a picture that circulated (I have it somewhere) and they guy from the storage space contacted Duff's management and Duff collected them.
My point was that when Izzy is involved he usually writes fully structured songs with lyrics, too.
Izzy wasn't credit on Velvet Revolver's Contraband and we know he contributed to it, Also that Scott Weiland is credited as writing all the vocals on Contraband.
I wrote Duff has the dat tapes you above wrote he maybe has them but then brought up how his management team got them back in 2019 so I'm confused on what you're saying ?
(Re: Izzy and VR, there apparently Weiland rewrote whatever lyrics Izzy had written on the songs they used from those sessions. From what they have said, they changed the shit out of those songs written with Izzy because Weiland didn't like them).
Couldn't Axl have done the same thing ?
#44 Re: Guns N' Roses » Nothin' » 35 weeks ago
Bill Brasky wrote:Blackstar wrote:It's correct, except maybe that Duff has the DAT tapes, because a few years ago a DAT from those 1995 Izzy/Duff sessions (containing two of the demos, Tooth Puller and Machine Gun) was found forgotten in a storage space alongside other Duff related stuff. There was a picture that circulated (I have it somewhere) and they guy from the storage space contacted Duff's management and Duff collected them.
My point was that when Izzy is involved he usually writes fully structured songs with lyrics, too.
Izzy wasn't credit on Velvet Revolver's Contraband and we know he contributed to it, Also that Scott Weiland is credited as writing all the vocals on Contraband.
I wrote Duff has the dat tapes you above wrote he maybe has them but then brought up how his management team got them back in 2019 so I'm confused on what you're saying ?
I'm saying that maybe Duff has that particular DAT with Down By The Ocean but we can't be sure of that, because he had apparently lost some of the other DATs from the same sessions that were found in that storage space, which may be an indication that he hadn't kept any of those tapes.
I'm also saying that regardless of whether Duff has that DAT or not, Down By The Ocean might not even be from those sessions.
But let's say that Duff has the dats. How would that be related to Nothing being Down By The Ocean?
Well if it was co written by Duff it's more likely to be used by Axl since Duff is a member in gnr and the partnership.
Giving Izzy money for his contributions or just reworking the song from Izzy parts would eliminate his writing credentials no ?
How is Monsters Soul Monster ?
I don't believe it is but since it's named Monsters and a lyric has the word Soul in it it must be Soul Monster according to your pal Soulmonster and the mygnr folks correct ?
Btw i have proven Marco Beltrami memory on what songs he worked not to be reliable if you were planning going down that route i can happily direct you or copy paste the information here.
Well Nothin' has the line Down By The Sea in the song isn't that the same criteria ?
Did you know in Webster's dictionary Monstrosity literally means Monster in the english language ?
Or that Guns N' Roses had 2 songs back to back on uyi 1 with garden in it !
Track 11 The Garden Track 12 Garden Of Eden. To quote Johnny Carson...Wild Stuff ! ( that's for you James)
I was told by a source a week ago Nothin' was Down By The Ocean and until Sp1at who i respect and i know is reputable said it wasn't it was making sense to me.
Is that fair, can you see it from my perspective ?
I'm not 100% right and have been wrong with information but people forget who first told them about Children Of The Revolution and many other things.
Btw in hindsight doesn't seem like Nothin' and Atlas were supposed to be released on June 6th 2025 to support the tour and on the 40th anniversary of gnr first show ?
#45 Re: Guns N' Roses » Nothin' » 35 weeks ago
Izzy also said that he sent Axl a few songs in 1996. It's not completely clear, but probably that batch of songs was different/in addition to the Izzy/Duff sessions in 1995 (as Izzy didn't mention Duff there) and if so, Down By The Ocean could be from that second batch of Izzy songs:
I can't say which group of songs Axl decided to use. But i would assume Izzy and Duff collaboration produced the better demos considering the rhythm guitarist and bass player together have better chance to build out a song together then they would individually.
It's a assumption but based in logic.
I also believe Guns N' Roses would be more likely to release a song that a current member wrote with Izzy.
#46 Re: Guns N' Roses » Nothin' » 35 weeks ago
Bill Brasky wrote:Blackstar wrote:Down By The Ocean was written by Izzy in 1995 (among other songs). But, according to Izzy, Axl contacted him some time in 2000 (or maybe early 2001) and asked him for the tapes. It's not clear if that means that Axl hadn't kept the songs at all or he was asking for the masters.
Regardless, since that song was written by Izzy, it's almost safe to assume that it would have been a full fledged song since 1995 or at least not a sketch in the form of Nothing that we heard in the locker leaks, unless Axl used just small elements of it (but that doesn't seem very likely).
Izzy was writing with Duff.
Per Chinese Whispers
"In April, 1995, Duff calls me again: 'I'm trying to compose new songs for the guys in GN'R. Come and give me a hand.' It made five [years] that I'd left Guns but I said myself: 'Well shit, after all, why not?' Duff and I wrote ten songs in the space of week. We even recorded them as demos." (French Izzy interview, 2001)
Which means Duff has the dat tapes too.In 2000 Axl was talking to Izzy and not Duff whose now back in gnr.
We have no idea the level of completion of any of the Izzy and Duff songs.
Is anything i written above not factually correct ?It's correct, except maybe that Duff has the DAT tapes, because a few years ago a DAT from those 1995 Izzy/Duff sessions (containing two of the demos, Tooth Puller and Machine Gun) was found forgotten in a storage space alongside other Duff related stuff. There was a picture that circulated (I have it somewhere) and they guy from the storage space contacted Duff's management and Duff collected them.
My point was that when Izzy is involved he usually writes fully structured songs with lyrics, too.
Izzy wasn't credit on Velvet Revolver's Contraband and we know he contributed to it, Also that Scott Weiland is credited as writing all the vocals on Contraband.
I wrote Duff has the dat tapes you above wrote he maybe has them but then brought up how his management team got them back in 2019 so I'm confused on what you're saying ?
#47 Re: Guns N' Roses » Nothin' » 35 weeks ago
Down By The Ocean was written by Izzy in 1995 (among other songs). But, according to Izzy, Axl contacted him some time in 2000 (or maybe early 2001) and asked him for the tapes. It's not clear if that means that Axl hadn't kept the songs at all or he was asking for the masters.
Regardless, since that song was written by Izzy, it's almost safe to assume that it would have been a full fledged song since 1995 or at least not a sketch in the form of Nothing that we heard in the locker leaks, unless Axl used just small elements of it (but that doesn't seem very likely).
Izzy was writing with Duff.
Per Chinese Whispers
"In April, 1995, Duff calls me again: 'I'm trying to compose new songs for the guys in GN'R. Come and give me a hand.' It made five [years] that I'd left Guns but I said myself: 'Well shit, after all, why not?' Duff and I wrote ten songs in the space of week. We even recorded them as demos." (French Izzy interview, 2001)
Which means Duff has the dat tapes too.
In 2000 Axl was talking to Izzy and not Duff whose now back in gnr.
We have no idea the level of completion of any of the Izzy and Duff songs.
Is anything i written above not factually correct ?
#48 Re: Guns N' Roses » Nothin' » 35 weeks ago
Bill Brasky wrote:AgesOfTheIce wrote:sp1at, do you know if Zodiac was ever completed with vocals?
On the village disc it list Zodiac no vox so it's safe to assume it has vocals.
Yeah, but they could also be scratch vocals like Quicksong.
That i don't know.
But Axl did confirm as real song in 08 forum chats.
#49 Re: Guns N' Roses » Nothin' » 35 weeks ago
sp1at, do you know if Zodiac was ever completed with vocals?
On the village disc it list Zodiac no vox so it's safe to assume it has vocals.
#50 Re: Guns N' Roses » Nothin' » 35 weeks ago
sp1at wrote:Bill Brasky wrote:I asked and appreciates your response because someone told me a week ago Nothin' was Down By The Ocean. Obviously the information can be wrong and if you trust your source which seem very reputable i withdraw my Nothin' being Down By The Ocean claim. Obviously you have a better source and i know you're a reputable poster.
A description of the song would be nice.
Ha. It was a short clip a long time ago. It really wasn't that exciting, but it didn't sound like Nothing.
I'll ask my wife tomorrow,.she might remember it better than me.
I appreciate it.
Just so you know we did a episode of Sheeeit radio early today and uploaded it regarding the new songs, i said in the video that a source told Nothin' was Down By The Ocean. I just made quick video Brasky was wrong about Nothin ?
Because of the conversation we had and in that video stated what you said here and how you're a reputable poster so my information must be wrong.
[youtube]https://youtu.be/gggOWUay0UA?si=_C96j4mJ1SLha6fI[/youtube]
[youtube]https://youtu.be/Y6HI3nUafGA?si=-TRSCqeKirHd6udO[/youtube]
