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#8981 Re: Guns N' Roses » The Azoff factor re-examined: could he be targeting Bucket, not Slash? » 931 weeks ago

This might sound like an asshole thing to say....and I don't want to rag on tommy fans...but I personally don't think loosing Tommy would make any difference to the music of the band. His parts on the new songs, both live and in the studio are pretty much stock standard bass lines. There is nothing wrong with that - but there is also nothing unique or memorable about his performance.

Take any of the leaks: Substitute guitarist X for Robin and the song would sound way different, all those nutty bends and dischords would vanish. Or remove bucket and have guitarist X play for him - and wait - all of a sudden all those distinctive bucket licks and solos just died in the ass. Now do the same thing for tommy - take out his bass and have bassist X overdub. Notice anything different? I wouldn't.

#8982 Re: Guns N' Roses » A Random Forum Post about Finck » 931 weeks ago

James Lofton wrote:

Since Fortus is supposedly a God, it makes you wonder why he wasn't given Finck's role in the band.

16 I'm not one of those people that worships fortus and likes to kiss his ass, but I must say that from watching his solo spots, it's clear he has some technical ability on guitar, and I would guess is actually better than robin is a lot of ways. Maybe Axl was trying to be nice to fink, I mean he already got bucket in to add parts that Robin can't do, getting fortus to play the remaining solos would be pretty rough. Anyway i'm not sure if you were kidding, but I could actually see that resulting in a rendition more acceptable to most old school fans.

I've been thinking more about Robin, and there is something that's always confused me. At first, I assumed the problem was as others have said, that he isn't primarily a blues rock guitarist, he is more industrial, and was basicly out of his league attempting to replicate the sound of one of the most iconic blues rock players out there. But on his solo spot on tour here, he played a full on blues kinda thing...and that made me wonder what his deal really is. I still think it's likely he plays them different intentionally to not show up that he can't play them like slash note for note, so rather than show he is unable he makes it look like he doesn't want to. So he's added a ton of his own style to cover it. Just my opinion.

I'm about to say something controversial. So hopefully this won't shit everyone off too bad. An idea just came into my mind on a related topic. But I think maybe each of the lead guitarists was hired by Axl to be somewhat of a one-trick pony in this band. I know that sounds like madness, but let me explain what I mean.

If you think of the Robin solos...the parts Neemo listed that he hates...they are all pretty similar...massive bends..dissonance....its all very much in the exact same style..and that's what he has added to the old songs too. Love it like guys like JB do, or hate it like Neemo. It's always the same thing when he plays a solo...

Then look at bucket. Sure he has the technical ability to play anything. But what has he been reduced to doing in most GNR songs? To my ears its like the same three things: 1. A sudden burst of insanely hard to play shred - such as his solo in IRS, or when he "tags in" on the latter part of the CD solo.  2. Octive shift peddal madness...such as in Rhiad and his solo in Song #2 and 3. What i call a "spider run" because I don't know the technical term - its the two handed tap thing where he plays upside down on the fretboard using both hands over the guitar. As used to great effect in "Jordan" etc. But you hear him doing this in Better in the short burst, and then again in Rhiad near the end. Bucket is an amazing player and i'm not saying this to knock him at all...i'm just saying its like all they wanted him for in places is a bad ass run for 10 seconds leading up to the choruses and stuff. Mostly he overdubs a solo. Basicly he's been asked to do the same few tricks over and over again.

I dunno, I might be heading up the wrong tree with this whole line of thought. But i'm just wondering if that's what it comes down to. Bucket is hired to add the shred bursts, robin is hired to add the dissonance style industrial solos, and they don't seem to have a lot of chances to really try much outside of that box. People talk about how these songs are written for 3 guitars a lot. But I ask...are they really? or are they written for three different people? each with their own style. How often are all 3 guitars playing a distinct and audible part over each  other...it happens for sure...but if you had a guitasrist that could do all the styles i don't think you'd loose much, like if one guy played robin's bend solo then bucket's shred run. I'm getting way off track, but sometimes i think Axl just hires people who have a distincitive and unusual sound rather than anything else. Think about it...it's not like robin will bust out a dissonance solo and we'll all think that its bucket...and likewise..when bucket plays what he does its pretty damn clear that's who is behind the strings. Likewise slash has a distinctive touch when he was in the band.

Anyway I think robin's playing on the new songs is a love it or hate it kinda thing. I personally think his style suits the new songs ok as they have been written for it. Just like Axl's modern higher voice works in the new songs to me. But I'm not such a fan of the new high voice singing the old songs, and i'm not a fan of robin's interpretation of AFD solos.

Which is the problem i've had with this band for a while now. I like new lineups when they play their songs - which is maybe 4 songs if that a night. But they totally own when they do that. But if I'm going to hear a classic set list - either give me the men who wrote it - or at a minimum people who will cover and  replicate it to perfection - not a bunch of industrial shit blended into the best blues rock album ever.

#8983 Re: Guns N' Roses » A Random Forum Post about Finck » 931 weeks ago

Neemo wrote:

the first blues solo stinks too :sick:

you really think that? I was dubious about the progression of the solo until 2:38 and there's something nice in that part to me. Something about that high bit always snaps me to attention if i'm listening while typing or something.

#8984 Re: Guns N' Roses » A Random Forum Post about Finck » 931 weeks ago

I think sorum suggested him as the replacment for Gilby not Slash however. He would have been ok on rhythm.

#8985 Re: Guns N' Roses » A Random Forum Post about Finck » 931 weeks ago

You might be right Aussie. I still feel that's unaccetable though. Like if you join a band you should be excited playing its songs or get out of the band. That's what all professional band members have to do. I guess the problem in GNR is Axl hired a bunch of people to write songs in a different style to the old band...then made them become the old band on tour over and over again.

In some ways at first I thought it might be respectful to try a new approach, as a direct note-for-note version would only highlight that the guitarist has changed. You know - like he can never be Slash - so at least if he isn't trying to be slash and doing his own thing - it's less of a failure kind of. But the way he has buthered the AFD solos is so bad now that its shocking. And it becomes disrespecful to alter the songs to the degrree that he has. these songs have classic world famous guitar lines, that he renders so badly - that it makes you think it would be closer to seeing GNR if you just got the average GNR pub cover band and put Axl on the mike with them.

#8987 Re: Guns N' Roses » A Random Forum Post about Finck » 931 weeks ago

Yeah...I have mixed views on Fink.

On one had his work on the new material is good. "The Blues" has a great solo and there's other passages of his work that are inspirational.

On the other hand - his rendition of the old bands songs is a disgrace.

Yes...it's hard to play in another person's style. And yes - some of the time people accuse him of playing out of tune its intenional use of Dissonance to create an effect and not that he has fucked up as such.

But the bottom line is - the guitar melodies in these songs are famous, just as the vocal melodies are.

Yes its acceptable to improvise to an extent, like how slash would change stuff around, but there's certain melodies and parts of solos that are iconic and need to be left alone and rendered the way they were recorded for it to be the same song anymore.

You don't see bands like VR getting up there and singing different words or changing the vocal tunes. Because it pisses off the audience and if taken too far is disresepectful to the original song. Coverbands and VR type bands honour the songs...and they don't even claim to be GNR. Its even more offensive when the "real" GNR fucks up the song.

Bottom line is - his recordings are good, but Fink will never get respect as a replacment to Slash if he can't or won't play the fucking songs right!

#8988 Re: Guns N' Roses » Chinese Democracy Elimination- Round 6 » 931 weeks ago

I've voted for CD. It cool but less cool than the rest.

#8989 Re: Guns N' Roses » New song lyrics » 931 weeks ago

This is what it sounds like to me smile


Anyway..it feels the same....
as-When you first told me you were gone
so long ago, but i've still held on,
to all the bullshit that i've had to take.
And that's the truth, and here's the worst yet:
Would it even matter the things that i say?
You made your mind up and gone anyway!
And there's no use now in dragging it on..
should've seen it comming all along...

smile

#8990 Re: Guns N' Roses » Rumor: Unheard GNR song on Rockband 2 » 931 weeks ago

Maybe the original title of "Shackler's Revenge" was fake..I mean looking at it in the light of day...it is named after a known buckhead track. seems odd for GNR (even with bucket) to make a sequal to his solo albums...

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