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Re: 11-21-2012 The Joint, Las Vegas (Being filmed in 3D)
misterID wrote:Ali wrote:After years like 2003-2005, 2008-most of 2009 and most of 2011, I would say not touring is a clear sign he doesn't want to be touring.
Ali
I think the tours from 09-13 could be called: "Axl needs the money."
It's lazy singing. He puts on a good show, but it's without the bite he had in 06 when it seeemd like he had something to prove, or he actually wanted to be there. That he wanted to kick ass. He put on a good show in 2002, too. And he made it clear afterwards he didn't want to be there and it was forced on him. It's the same feeling Im getting here. Some of those 02 shows were fucking tight. Axl's voice was not.
And yet he puts on a three hour show or more, night after night. If he didn't want to be there, why go to that extent? Why play that long? That doesn't add up to me.
I think he deliberately sings with a cleaner tone, or makes a deliberate effort to sing with that tone. I think that may be because of a concern over vocal wear and tear over the course of a long show and a long tour.
Ali
Ali, they've added way more solos, jams and covers since 02. That helps extend the set, also including Civil War and Estranged extends the set. Like I said, some of those 02 shows were killer. Axl's voice was exactly how it is now, and it was clear he was coasting back then and didn't want to be there. Touring is his bread and butter.
Re: 11-21-2012 The Joint, Las Vegas (Being filmed in 3D)
buzzsaw wrote:Ali wrote:How present the vocals are in the mix can't create a difference in his vocal tone, which seems to be the biggest objection I hear to his vocals.
Ali
It can if you can't clearly hear him. Down in the mix + crowd singing along can hide tone I suspect.
I had no problem making the distinctions in vocal tone the last two shows of the Vegas residency. For example, I noticed that during "Don't Cry", he started using a raspier tone as soon as he started singing "And please remember that I never lied...".
Even with the crowd singing along, I really had zero problem hearing Axl those two nights.
Ali
I don't know what to tell you...I was there on a different night and I couldn't hear shit over the music. I could hear he was singing, and from time to time I could hear him clearly, but a lot of it was him jumbled with the music from where I was standing. I wasn't far from Russ - maybe he heard it crystal clear from where he was and my hearing is off, but he didn't sound anywhere near as clear as he did in that video to my ears.
Re: 11-21-2012 The Joint, Las Vegas (Being filmed in 3D)
Ali wrote:misterID wrote:I think the tours from 09-13 could be called: "Axl needs the money."
It's lazy singing. He puts on a good show, but it's without the bite he had in 06 when it seeemd like he had something to prove, or he actually wanted to be there. That he wanted to kick ass. He put on a good show in 2002, too. And he made it clear afterwards he didn't want to be there and it was forced on him. It's the same feeling Im getting here. Some of those 02 shows were fucking tight. Axl's voice was not.
And yet he puts on a three hour show or more, night after night. If he didn't want to be there, why go to that extent? Why play that long? That doesn't add up to me.
I think he deliberately sings with a cleaner tone, or makes a deliberate effort to sing with that tone. I think that may be because of a concern over vocal wear and tear over the course of a long show and a long tour.
Ali
Ali, they've added way more solos, jams and covers since 02. That helps extend the set, also including Civil War and Estranged extends the set. Like I said, some of those 02 shows were killer. Axl's voice was exactly how it is now, and it was clear he was coasting back then and didn't want to be there. Touring is his bread and butter.
Covers or not, they still require vocal effort. Let's not forget that he was running from the side to side in this "Paradise City" video. If he really did not want to be there, I honestly believe he would not do that. Look at what happened in Dublin in 2010 after he came back on stage. He stood there and sang in one place. He hardly moved. That was indicative of not wanting to be there. And, if he really didn't want to tour, he could do what he's done for so much of the last 20 years: not tour.
Ali
Re: 11-21-2012 The Joint, Las Vegas (Being filmed in 3D)
He was running all over the place in 02, also. He had his best string of shows right before he quit the tour. And again, touring is where he makes his living. Staying home gets him nothing. Touring the past 4 years with nothing to promote doesn't show me he wants to tour because he loves touring. And I'm sure that in his mind giving the fans a three hour show is giving them their money's worth.
This isn't really a knock. I'm saying the vocals mysteriously returning to the 02 level strikes me as following a certain pattern. We know he can turn it on sporadically during the show when he wants to. He just doesn't want to.
Re: 11-21-2012 The Joint, Las Vegas (Being filmed in 3D)
He was running all over the place in 02, also. He had his best string of shows right before he quit the tour. And again, touring is where he makes his living. Staying home gets him nothing. Touring the past 4 years with nothing to promote doesn't show me he wants to tour because he loves touring. And I'm sure that in his mind giving the fans a three hour show is giving them their money's worth.
This isn't really a knock. I'm saying the vocals mysteriously returning to the 02 level strikes me as following a certain pattern. We know he can turn it on sporadically during the show when he wants to. He just doesn't want to.
We'll have to agree to disagree then. There are far too many years of not touring and at least one prime example of Axl making it clear with his body language that he did not want to be singing at a particular show for me to believe that he does not want to be touring at all.
Ali
Re: 11-21-2012 The Joint, Las Vegas (Being filmed in 3D)
Ali wrote:buzzsaw wrote:It can if you can't clearly hear him. Down in the mix + crowd singing along can hide tone I suspect.
I had no problem making the distinctions in vocal tone the last two shows of the Vegas residency. For example, I noticed that during "Don't Cry", he started using a raspier tone as soon as he started singing "And please remember that I never lied...".
Even with the crowd singing along, I really had zero problem hearing Axl those two nights.
Ali
I don't know what to tell you...I was there on a different night and I couldn't hear shit over the music. I could hear he was singing, and from time to time I could hear him clearly, but a lot of it was him jumbled with the music from where I was standing. I wasn't far from Russ - maybe he heard it crystal clear from where he was and my hearing is off, but he didn't sound anywhere near as clear as he did in that video to my ears.
That is a bit strange to hear, but I don't have an answer. All I can say it was possible for me to hear clear distinctions in vocal tone, like I mentioned with "Don't Cry". In fact, it wasn't until hearing that song on consecutive nights that it crystallized for me that he really is turning on and off the raspier tone deliberately and selectively.
Ali
Re: 11-21-2012 The Joint, Las Vegas (Being filmed in 3D)
I don't know how or why, but Axl doesn't sound that bad when you're there. I can't explain it; it defies logic.
Slash plays the songs with such ease and flow that GnR can't replicate. They play the right notes, but it just doesn't sound right. I can't really explain that either because I respect them all as musicians...it's almost like they play it too clean if that makes any sense. I don't really care about the drummers, but maybe this is what people that love Adler hear vs Matt on the AFD songs. To my ears Matt is fine, but I'm not a drums guy at all.
As far as Axl goes I think it's a combination of being caught up in the moment when you're there and the vocals not being as clear when you're there so you don't realize how bad he sounds. I agree that he sounds so much better when you're there but this weird phenomenon of Axl sounded great when you're there and sounding like crap on film seems to only apply to Axl. I can't think of another artists who is so night and day when you see them in person compared to seeing them on video.
I have no idea what it is about the band. Like you I respect the guys in Guns big time but for whatever reason it just doesn't sound right. People have mocked the idea that suggests they can't match Slash's tone but it's just a simple fact for those who hear it. There's somehting about the way Slah can perform the songs that nobody else can truly replicate even when they hit all the same notes. It's weird.
Re: 11-21-2012 The Joint, Las Vegas (Being filmed in 3D)
I don't know what to tell you...I was there on a different night and I couldn't hear shit over the music. I could hear he was singing, and from time to time I could hear him clearly, but a lot of it was him jumbled with the music from where I was standing. I wasn't far from Russ - maybe he heard it crystal clear from where he was and my hearing is off, but he didn't sound anywhere near as clear as he did in that video to my ears.
In December 2006 his vocals were pretty much non existant for the entire Calgary show It was brutal. yet Baz sounded great when he opened. A few nights lately in Edmonton it was better but barely yet once again Baz sounded great. In fact Axl was completey inaudible for the entire Paradise City performance in Edmonton. Yet in January 2010 in Calgary he sounded fucking amazing. Makes no sense. Most ammature outfit of all time.
Covers or not, they still require vocal effort. Let's not forget that he was running from the side to side in this "Paradise City" video. If he really did not want to be there, I honestly believe he would not do that. Look at what happened in Dublin in 2010 after he came back on stage. He stood there and sang in one place. He hardly moved. That was indicative of not wanting to be there. And, if he really didn't want to tour, he could do what he's done for so much of the last 20 years: not tour.
Ali
There's a big difference between getting into a performance and wanting to be on tour. I don't want to go to work everyday but even the days I don't want to be there there are moments I enjoy. Saying Axl running from side to side during a performance of PC is a clear sign he wants to be on tour is a huge stretch. He's a performer what do you expect him to do? Pout the way he did in dublin all show, all tour? Not gonna happen even if he absolutely hated being there. To be fair there is no real proof that he doesn't want to be there either, just all speculation but you can't using running around on stage as proof he wants to be there.
Re: 11-21-2012 The Joint, Las Vegas (Being filmed in 3D)
There's a big difference between getting into a performance and wanting to be on tour. I don't want to go to work everyday but even the days I don't want to be there there are moments I enjoy. Saying Axl running from side to side during a performance of PC is a clear sign he wants to be on tour is a huge stretch. He's a performer what do you expect him to do? Pout the way he did in dublin all show, all tour? Not gonna happen even if he absolutely hated being there. To be fair there is no real proof that he doesn't want to be there either, just all speculation but you can't using running around on stage as proof he wants to be there.
Very true. I'd agree with Ali that it seems to ME that he's enjoying himself more these days. He seems to be in a good mood on the road and during the shows. The negative incidents have pretty much disappeared as well. All those signs would point to him wanting to tour.
BUT, I surely wasn't aware that he didn't want to tour in 2002 either, so you can't really go off of what you think you see. So yeah, we're all guessing. Can't really say who's right or who's wrong until there's definitive proof one way or the other. And we may never get that either, if nothing negative happens or is said regarding the touring schedule. Unfortunately with GNR, many people expect the worst. And you can't blame them for that, with all that we've seen over the years.
Re: 11-21-2012 The Joint, Las Vegas (Being filmed in 3D)
buzzsaw wrote:I don't know how or why, but Axl doesn't sound that bad when you're there. I can't explain it; it defies logic.
Slash plays the songs with such ease and flow that GnR can't replicate. They play the right notes, but it just doesn't sound right. I can't really explain that either because I respect them all as musicians...it's almost like they play it too clean if that makes any sense. I don't really care about the drummers, but maybe this is what people that love Adler hear vs Matt on the AFD songs. To my ears Matt is fine, but I'm not a drums guy at all.
As far as Axl goes I think it's a combination of being caught up in the moment when you're there and the vocals not being as clear when you're there so you don't realize how bad he sounds. I agree that he sounds so much better when you're there but this weird phenomenon of Axl sounded great when you're there and sounding like crap on film seems to only apply to Axl. I can't think of another artists who is so night and day when you see them in person compared to seeing them on video.
I have no idea what it is about the band. Like you I respect the guys in Guns big time but for whatever reason it just doesn't sound right. People have mocked the idea that suggests they can't match Slash's tone but it's just a simple fact for those who hear it. There's somehting about the way Slah can perform the songs that nobody else can truly replicate even when they hit all the same notes. It's weird.
I can't speak for anyone else, but for me the "being in the moment" thing doesn't apply. And, in particular at the last two Vegas residency shows I was at, Axl being clear was not a problem for me. If you can hear variations in his tone, then clarity is not an issue.
As far as this being an issue only relegated to Axl, I disagree. Not that I agree with it, but I've heard similar things said about Bruce Dickinson.
Ali
