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Re: BUMBLEFOOT Says Waiting For A New GUNS N' ROSES Album To Get Done Is '
I liked the Division Bell. And "Marooned" was friggin bad ass. It was almost ritual: Roll a joint, put on Marooned, mind expanded. 
If anything, I'd say Axl was Gilmore. Took the name, put out a couple albums, used the band to tour, and rarely puts out any original material. I'll even go a step further, that I always got the impression that he had much more contempt for his fanbase than Axl ever did. Waters has been about as active as Slash has at releasing music on his own. It seems like a big pain in the ass for Gilmore to do anything creatively and I'm not sure he enjoys it or wants to do it.
Would you consider DJ to have written hits? I don't know how big the songs he wrote for Beautiful Creatures and Motley Crue and Sixx AM were. All I know is that I'd take Robin's one song from CD over everything I've heard from DJ. And Robin did get those songwriting credits with NIN that I think, as a whole, are better than most post GN'R members material.
I'd say Mother Goose seems to be the most important member in the band when it comes to writing. Paul isn't a member, just Axl's personal co-song writer.
Re: BUMBLEFOOT Says Waiting For A New GUNS N' ROSES Album To Get Done Is '
Apart from BH nobody in the band have really done anything remarkable creatively outside of GN'R. I'd propose the same to be true for the old band after they left. Ok you have Slither which I'd easily consider the ex members best work since 91, but that song competes with something like Pretty Tied Up or Out Ta Get Me, not YCBM or Jungle. One of the reasons of course is the unique voice of Axl, but it's not the main one. What they're lacking is that little extra in structure, arrangements and vocal melodies. The ability to sniff out a song, to find the perfect hook at the perfect time.
I'll be labelled a hater for this but CD to me isn't even on par with songs like PTU or Out Ta Get Me, or The Garden or etc etc. CD isn't a very good abum in my opinion and as more time goes on the songs have even less appeal to me. I don't even remember the last time I listened to the album. You said somewhere else that Axl is creating Bach like symphonies and no offence but I laughed at that. I thought it was so ridiculous to suggest Axl's CD era materal is that genius. To each their own though.
Truly great bands usually have two guys like this. Lennon/McCartney (Harrison probably belongs too, so that's three), Jagger/Richards (you might include Taylor since their best work was done with him), Page/Plant, Waters/Barrett. In Gn'R it was Axl/Izzy and "these days" you could say Tobias is one since he seems to play such a large part on CD despite being a rythm guitarist who hasn't even been mentioned in connection to the band since 02.
Slash is David Gilmour. Integral part of a great band, contributing to and being indispensable to some fantastic work. After Waters left however he was nothing. Even having the two other remaining original members there to help him, both of which have writing credit on some of the best Floyd songs, the two albums he was fronting wasn't even close to being Floyd. On the other hand, The Wall in which Waters received something like 99% of the royalties was Floyd to the core. Different, but very much in the proper vein of the band.
Likewise I consider CD to be "real" Guns in that the proper care and subtlety have been taken in structuring the songs, albeit with mostly different (and at times you could say inferior) players. In that sense I'm not all that worried that Thal or DJ is going to give us some shitty Poision esque album. Either they'll deliver or they'll be rejected and possibly replaced. Still, the focus should definitely be on getting out the remainder of the CD sessions. You just don't waste the talent of BH and Finck like that. I think we might be looking at a mix, to include the new guys. Maybe give em 4 or 5 songs on top of what's already there. How easy that's going to be accomplished in GN'R land is another matter of course.
I think Contraband and both Slash solo albums shit all over CD. Libertad however is not as good as CD. So again I can't help but shake my head when someone says Slash is nothing without Axl which is essentially what you're saying here and that Slash's work post Guns sucks while CD is in the same vein as classic Guns.
Neither have reached the level of classic Guns but VR and Slash are way more in the vein of it than CD in my opinion. Slash's Anastasia blows anything on CD outta the fucking water in my opinion.
Re: BUMBLEFOOT Says Waiting For A New GUNS N' ROSES Album To Get Done Is '
Hate to be correcting Russ all the time, but Waters released three solo albums 
:
Pros and Cons of HitchHiking (with Eric Clapton on guitars)
Radio CHAOS
Amused to Death (with Jeff Beck on guitars, Don Henley on some vocals)
Not that it matters to the argument, at all 
If we were to draw a GNR/Floyd comparison, to me, Izzy is Sid Barret, Axl is Waters and Slash is Gilmour.
Ignore the name issue(s).
Izzy and Sid left and released albums that were praised, both critically and by part of the fan base and musical fans - not ex-band fans only.
Axl and Waters wrote most of lyrics and built the identity of the music, both were always worried about pushing the envelope and doing something that would matter.
Slash and Gilmour kept releasing stuff, both Solo and with previous bandmates, but never captured the magic and some might say that not having Axl or Waters to pull the best of them out, they were just good attempts, not very good hits.
Slash, differently from Gilmour, seems to be getting closer to achieve a level of quality that is closer to what he had with his previous band.
(DIsclaimer: I'm not, at any point in this argument, considering public appeal or sales. Just reception of the material, quality).
Re: BUMBLEFOOT Says Waiting For A New GUNS N' ROSES Album To Get Done Is '
I liked the Division Bell. And "Marooned" was friggin bad ass. It was almost ritual: Roll a joint, put on Marooned, mind expanded.
If anything, I'd say Axl was Gilmore. Took the name, put out a couple albums, used the band to tour, and rarely puts out any original material. I'll even go a step further, that I always got the impression that he had much more contempt for his fanbase than Axl ever did. Waters has been about as active as Slash has at releasing music on his own. It seems like a big pain in the ass for Gilmore to do anything creatively and I'm not sure he enjoys it or wants to do it.
Would you consider DJ to have written hits? I don't know how big the songs he wrote for Beautiful Creatures and Motley Crue and Sixx AM were. All I know is that I'd take Robin's one song from CD over everything I've heard from DJ. And Robin did get those songwriting credits with NIN that I think, as a whole, are better than most post GN'R members material.
I'd say Mother Goose seems to be the most important member in the band when it comes to writing. Paul isn't a member, just Axl's personal co-song writer.
Both A Momentary Lapse of Reason and The Division Bell have good songs. There's no doubt about Gilmour's talent. It never felt like Floyd to me though, not even bad Floyd. It was like a solo project and to me it showed that Gilmour's "vision" was not at all what I had become accustomed to with him and Waters.
Howard Stern did an interview with Waters last year that was hilarious. Axl should take a page from his book. Yes, he hates Gilmour (least he did for many years) but he's very laid back about it. I actually think he should do one of those tings with him. Stern can definitely ask some uncomfortable questions, but he's "on your side" when doing it and the end product always comes out great. Somebody asking Axl something like how long his penis is in fact a sadly missed aspect in his interviews. That Trunk crap was the biggest joke ever. What a tool!
DJ have made a little bit of impact, but strict material wise I think that's mostly down to there being a plague in rock these days. It's you know, alright, not great. Motley and their ilk always was a very lesser version of GN'R. I prefer Robin by a mile too. To me a guy that says he watches TV in his closet gives me a lot more confidence creatively than a party loving boozer. The more issues the greater the art usually. DJ is a bit Adlerish in that regard.
Pitman is another weirdo like that, as was Tobias. Don't think these are coincidences.
Re: BUMBLEFOOT Says Waiting For A New GUNS N' ROSES Album To Get Done Is '
I'll be labelled a hater for this but CD to me isn't even on par with songs like PTU or Out Ta Get Me, or The Garden or etc etc. CD isn't a very good abum in my opinion and as more time goes on the songs have even less appeal to me. I don't even remember the last time I listened to the album. You said somewhere else that Axl is creating Bach like symphonies and no offence but I laughed at that. I thought it was so ridiculous to suggest Axl's CD era materal is that genius. To each their own though.
To each his own of course, but those that like the album (and there are a few) tend to really like it. Was going through CD song by song on youtube the other day and I gotta say the responses were overwhelmingly positive. Not the cross appeal of old of course, not even of Contraband, but those that enjoy it tend to hold it in very high regard.
I did not say he's creating symphonies. I said compared to the ex members he does. It may take forever, and many might not like the style or sound, but there's a very good reason he still has active forums where rabid debates take place while Slash don't and never have had. His music simply touches people more profoundly. To the point where people write elaborated essays and even haters can't stay away. As much as the Slash crowd hammers on that his solo stuff is the shit you certainly don't see that type of dedication. Take that for what you will.
I think Contraband and both Slash solo albums shit all over CD. Libertad however is not as good as CD. So again I can't help but shake my head when someone says Slash is nothing without Axl which is essentially what you're saying here and that Slash's work post Guns sucks while CD is in the same vein as classic Guns.
Neither have reached the level of classic Guns but VR and Slash are way more in the vein of it than CD in my opinion. Slash's Anastasia blows anything on CD outta the fucking water in my opinion.
Slash and co sounds more like the old band, but I don't find the quality of their songs to be even close. Sometimes I will hear something that could have been a good GN'R song but they never go that extra mile. Maybe not too surprising when the ultimate philosophy seems to be "make a record in 1 week and hit the bar". I tried listening to Anastasia again since there's so much raving about it in certain circles. It's actually a very good example of how a decent riff and solo won't get you very far when you have Whitesnake doing lead vocals. The reason I got into GN'R was that they rose above all those bands. They tried to be something more. Far as I can tell that does not seem to be the case anymore for Slash.
Re: BUMBLEFOOT Says Waiting For A New GUNS N' ROSES Album To Get Done Is '
While I personally think that CD lives up to the GN'R name, I put it in the same category as The Division Bell; what I think doesn't really matter. The general public is never going to consider it to be great. As far as all things Slash go, none of it outside of parts of the first VR record has really grabbed me. So that's why I say there isn't a direct comparison between them and Floyd at least as far as the music goes except for drawing a comparison between CD and The Division Bell in terms of the publics eye.
Considering your seemingly preferred allegiance I'm inclined to question your dedication here Russ. 
In the public eye the comparison is in fact very apt, but you just don't see the same dedication for The Division Bell among Floyd fans as you do for CD and GN'R. And I don't think I've ever seen any strong desire for new Gilmour material since I joined the web back in 97. Do you hear anything as good as TWAT or Madagscar on TDB? To each his own of course, but that would surprise me.
Re: BUMBLEFOOT Says Waiting For A New GUNS N' ROSES Album To Get Done Is '
Well, that's kinda what I meant by public eye. The disinterest for TDB seems a lot more universal though. While the hardcore GN'R fanbase isn't exactly growing by leaps and bounds you gotta admit its dedication can be exceptional.
Re: BUMBLEFOOT Says Waiting For A New GUNS N' ROSES Album To Get Done Is '
To each his own of course, but those that like the album (and there are a few) tend to really like it. Was going through CD song by song on youtube the other day and I gotta say the responses were overwhelmingly positive. Not the cross appeal of old of course, not even of Contraband, but those that enjoy it tend to hold it in very high regard.
Well obviously those who like it will be the ones commenting going on 5 years after it's release. Those who don't like it aren't even bothering to look the songs up. You could say this exact same thing about any band. The comments on the videos are pretty much always overwhelmingly positive years after cause those who don't care for it aren't listening anymore.
I did not say he's creating symphonies. I said compared to the ex members he does. It may take forever, and many might not like the style or sound, but there's a very good reason he still has active forums where rabid debates take place while Slash don't and never have had. His music simply touches people more profoundly. To the point where people write elaborated essays and even haters can't stay away. As much as the Slash crowd hammers on that his solo stuff is the shit you certainly don't see that type of dedication. Take that for what you will.
Well I don't take it for much. I haven't posted on a U2 forum in over a year and I'm much more "rabid" U2 fan than Gn'R fan and have way more dedication to U2 than Gn'R. Posting on an "Axl" site is about the debate, the conversation, the opinions. Axl is a cluterfuck of drama. I like Slash's material better but I don't need to go to a forum to discuss things case the wheels stay in motion with Slash, just like they do with U2. I know Slash is doing his thing, like U2 and I like it and aside from that, that's all that matters. There's no doubt many people posting on a Gn'R forum are doing so based on the car crash type drama. To sugest that a person's activity or inactivity on a forum is a measure of how touched they are by the music is a tad ridiculous. You're in essence saying that somone like me is more touched by Axl's music than u2's. Not even remotely the case. If my being here was based on my love for CD I'd have stopped posting in 2008.
Slash and co sounds more like the old band, but I don't find the quality of their songs to be even close. Sometimes I will hear something that could have been a good GN'R song but they never go that extra mile. Maybe not too surprising when the ultimate philosophy seems to be "make a record in 1 week and hit the bar". I tried listening to Anastasia again since there's so much raving about it in certain circles. It's actually a very good example of how a decent riff and solo won't get you very far when you have Whitesnake doing lead vocals. The reason I got into GN'R was that they rose above all those bands. They tried to be something more. Far as I can tell that does not seem to be the case anymore for Slash.
You make it sound as though Slash's productivity is a bad thing. I'll sure as hell take his approach over Axl's 1 album ever 20 years approach. I agree in that I think Slash has done a lot of songs that sound like they coud be good Gn'R songs. What they're missing is a certain voice and that's it really. BUT I hear songs on CD that would've been good if they weren't so Axlized. Terrible production, too many layers, Songs that never go anywhere special, guitar solos that remind you how sorely missed Slash is, songs with no identity, going for the extra mile way too often numerous times in indvidual songs to the point they sound like "try hard" songs. CD with a regular band of singer, drummer, bass, guitar(Slash) and keys would've been great. Slash's stuff with Axl's vocals would be great. They are both missing something BUT in my opinion Axl misses Slash WAY MORE than Slash misses Axl. Slash still makes music I enjoy. Axl not so much.
As for rising above and trying something more.... AFD is a straight ahead, kickass rock record. Simple, powerful, amazing. Leave the forced epics at the door and do what you do. Axl forgot that long ago and it's showed in his inability to recapture the imagination of the public and half his fanbase. At least Slash is trying. If rising above and trying to be something more means doing nothing than fuck that noise.
