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Intercourse
 Rep: 212 

Re: Matt Sorum open to Playing with Current GNR Line-up

Intercourse wrote:

It would make you wonder that if Axl had presented some decent electronic soundscapes for Slash to weave his magic on could these guys have lasted the distance.
There are very few creatives who would wait 10 years for their partner to get his mojo sorted so its no surprise Slash bailed.
Maybe if Axl knew waht the fuck he actually wanted, rather than what he didn't want things could have been much better for the band.

The UYI sessions were already as disjointed as the early CD sessions with the old band with Axl leaving his big ballads for Slash to layer his guitar over.
Slash seemed to get a lot of satisfaction doing that despite his reservations about the style of songs themselves, he mentioned in his book begrudgingly getting to really like them over time.

I think Slash riffing mercilessly over some stomping electronic shit with Axl going full blast on top could have been amazing.

misterID
 Rep: 460 

Re: Matt Sorum open to Playing with Current GNR Line-up

misterID wrote:

No. Simply because it went much deeper than music styles and synths, and there was no easy or magical fix. And still, I don't think Slash would have worked on those. Especially back then... and you're still placing the blame solely on Axl here.

Intercourse
 Rep: 212 

Re: Matt Sorum open to Playing with Current GNR Line-up

Intercourse wrote:
misterID wrote:

No. Simply because it went much deeper than music styles and synths, and there was no easy or magical fix. And still, I don't think Slash would have worked on those. Especially back then... and you're still placing the blame solely on Axl here.

I'm not blaming anyone for anthing, just wondering if Slash would have come around to Axl's thinking like he did for SCOM, NR and Estranged simply by having somthing to actually work on rather than being told none of his stuff was right or good enough.

misterID
 Rep: 460 

Re: Matt Sorum open to Playing with Current GNR Line-up

misterID wrote:

You were assuming Axl didn't present him with some cool (or as you say, decent), sonic landscapes. This I Love was around at the time, and from what we can put together, Slash didn't want to work on songs like that anymore. And there was also Fall To Pieces which started out as a GN'R song that Axl liked and that Slash dumped. I'm sure Slash wasn't happy that the majority of his songs were being dumped by Axl (AND Duff to be fair) and it probably didn't make him want to work with them. It would piss me off too.

And didn't Axl eventually have to pay Slash like 30 grand to perform on NR and Estranged? Slash taking decades to eventually like those songs, such as SCOM and Patience, doesn't do much for the time they were actually trying to work with each other on those songs, or eventually those types of songs. After the whole UYI and Snakepit thing, Slash probably put his foot down about what he was and wasn't going to do anymore.

One thing Slash has always been pretty steadfast about was that he did not like the synth and digital aspects of music, even with the old band (especially UYI). Again, I don't think it was as simple as how you're putting it. I think a problem was that they spent like two years trying to find common ground, when, imo, neither really wanted to... I don't think either guy wanted to be the one to bail. And Axl and Duff seemed to have decided on a different direction for GN'R than Slash, which is constantly overlooked. Duff was trying to bring in Pod (Chris Vrenna of NIN) to be in the Mother Goose/Brain role, and eventual replacement for Matt.

There was also probably a lot of hurt feelings on top of the musical tug of war in regards to their direction that hurt the band also.

Smoking Guns
 Rep: 328 

Re: Matt Sorum open to Playing with Current GNR Line-up

Smoking Guns wrote:

I think after this Slash and Myles tour Slash goes back to eithe VR or GNR. That will be 3 solo albums in 4 years (5 if your count upcoming tour). He got it out of his system.

Intercourse
 Rep: 212 

Re: Matt Sorum open to Playing with Current GNR Line-up

Intercourse wrote:
misterID wrote:

You were assuming Axl didn't present him with some cool (or as you say, decent), sonic landscapes. .


I just went through Chinese Whispers and none of the players at the time mention any submissions from Axl, including the man himself.

“Slash has been working on a lot of things, working on a lot of riffs with the band. [...] Other than that, we're not even sure how we're gonna approach writing for this next album." (Axl, Hit Parader, 1993)


Slash discusses what Axl was thinking about doing but there is no mention of actual music being handed over

"At one point he said he was gonna a solo project, then he decided his solo-project he could do with Guns, which I was like, after doing all those videos and this and that and the other, I was like: "No". [laughs] No, I don't wanna get involved in any kind of Stephanie Seymour ballads or any of that shit." (Slash, Canadian Radio, 04/20/95)

"On the first Snakepit-record I used some ideas which were really planned for the next GN'R-record, but Axl and I disagreed on the future direction of the band. I played Axl a demo with some of my ideas for songs, and all he said was: "I don't feel like playing this kind of music." I answered: "But this could be a excellent Gunner-record, hundred percent in GN'R style." He didn't really care 'cause he only wanted to play industrial and Pearl Jam-sounding crap." (Slash, 'Rock Hard' Magazine, 03/00)

Matt did reference his concern at Axl wheeling in the big grand piano so I'm thinking the big ballads were out but there is no word about electronica except..


misterID wrote:

And didn't Axl eventually have to pay Slash like 30 grand to perform on NR and Estranged?

Never heard that..

misterID wrote:

Slash taking decades to eventually like those songs, such as SCOM and Patience, doesn't do much for the time they were actually trying to work with each other on those songs, or eventually those types of songs

I don’t understand what you mean here. The band got AFD out quickly, the UYIs were held up for a year while Axl perfected the vocals…the is no evidence that there were delays due to Slash refusing to play on songs.

misterID wrote:

After the whole UYI and Snakepit thing, Slash probably put his foot down about what he was and wasn't going to do anymore.

I’d agree, I think he saw his place in GNR being threatened, I get his position on staying true to himself as a musician but shit, the world was done with Southern Rock at that stage and Axl was dead right to want to evolve the sound of the band. I would have loved to have heard a 1994 Contraband style album with Axl on the top, I think it would have been huge.

misterID wrote:

I think a problem was that they spent like two years trying to find common ground, when, imo, neither really wanted to... I don't think either guy wanted to be the one to bail. And Axl and Duff seemed to have decided on a different direction for GN'R than Slash, which is constantly overlooked

Agreed. To this day I am amazed that Duff & Slash could not have worked on this issue since Duff understood and backed what Axl had in mind.

Things just must have been fucked. As you say, neither man was for backing down. I think what was going on was that Slash had felt he’d indulged Axl long enough with big ballads, big videos, big entourages, walk offs, riots etc and it was time to take him on a break his total hold over the band. He picked the wrong guy.

misterID wrote:

Duff was trying to bring in Pod (Chris Vrenna of NIN) to be in the Mother Goose/Brain role, and eventual replacement for Matt.

Do you think? Axl mentioned a much bigger role for Matt in the next record..

"We're really into letting Matt go more off on his own in terms of drumming for GNR. [...] When he goes off on his own creative sense it's pretty amazing. I want to facilitate that getting out. I want Matt to just explode on the next record." (Axl, Hit Parader, 1993)

Mikkamakka
 Rep: 217 

Re: Matt Sorum open to Playing with Current GNR Line-up

Mikkamakka wrote:

I don't think that Axl paid $30,000 for Slash to get him write and play for NR and Estranged. But I do remember that Slash once paid $10,000 to the others cause he wanted to start a show with his favourite Nightrain. They lived a lifestyle none of us can imagine. 30,000 just wouldn't have been enough to buy any of theirs service. On the other hand I remember an Axl interview where he insinuated they were blackmailing each others during the UYI sessions. He said something like they told each other that "if my songs will not be done, then yours won't be done either".

It shows the tension even during the UYI era. I think the frustration of these recordings is overseen. Slash was full of it, publicly, sometimes blaming the absence of Axl and Izzy for the delay. They felt it took a lifetime to finish that album. Slash wanted it to be done by late 1988. The never-ending sessions were a nightmare for them. Axl not meeting them, being available only on phone was also a nightmare. Izzy's no-shows during the rehearsals also damaged the band. He disappeared for months. I remember Slash slamming Izzy for travelling across the US and not playing guitar for 2 months - when he was supposed to be with them (in Chicago I guess) to finish instrumental writing. So basically only 3 of them were working their asses off, in a really bad state of mind. No wonder that Slash's, Duff's and Steven's addiction worsened during this period. They also had problems with the amount of slow songs.

Considering this, it's no surprise Slash didn't want to repeat it. He's an addict, but he was aware that working hard was (and still is) the only solution not to kill himself with drugs or booze. But he's not the man for never-ending sessions, he needs to see the goal and it cannot be far off. He's the man of the minute - hence we have this amazing skills for improvisations and creating something quick, but the never-ending tinkering kills him. He wanted to survive.

So first he wanted to do a heavier blues rock record and totally ruled out the "ballad band" way. He didn't like the dolphins, the back-up singers, the "bigger than life" reality GN'R had become.

"At one point he said he was gonna a solo project, then he decided his solo-project he could do with Guns, which I was like, after doing all those videos and this and that and the other, I was like: "No". [laughs] No, I don't wanna get involved in any kind of Stephanie Seymour ballads or any of that shit."

(Slash, Canadian Radio, 04/20/95)

He thought he can guide the band back to its rock rules, instead of the mix of Elton John, Pearl Jam and Nine Inch Nails, that he hated then. It's a confusing mix anyway. He couldn't understand what Axl wanted from him - and I guess Axl only knew what he didn't want from Slash. Unfortunately that was the kind of music Slash wanted to make.
But Axl was in the position of power, cause he got the name and started a new band with the same name. He invited the others to join, but it was clear they didn't have power anymore. They had no say in what to do or what not to do.
I guess Slash panicked. He knew that he risks the existence of the whole band and even his life. He decided to give it another try, another tries, whatever it is, just to please Axl. He publicly said they were working on songs - Axl songs. (I can't find the qoute right now.)

Slash 1996:

I have only been back in the band for three weeks and my relationship with Axl right now is sort of at a stand still. Right now, Axl and I are deliberating over the future of our relationship.

Then they broke up.

Mikkamakka
 Rep: 217 

Re: Matt Sorum open to Playing with Current GNR Line-up

Mikkamakka wrote:

delete pls

Mikkamakka
 Rep: 217 

Re: Matt Sorum open to Playing with Current GNR Line-up

Mikkamakka wrote:

nothing

misterID
 Rep: 460 

Re: Matt Sorum open to Playing with Current GNR Line-up

misterID wrote:

Yeah, I don't know the amount, but I'm pretty positive Axl had to pay Slash to perform on Estranged and NR. No one remembers this? I thought it was backed up by someone like Tom?

And with all the respect in the world to Chinese Whispers, but just because we can't find an interview saying Axl presented the band with anything doesn't mean he didn't and that was really my point. We don't know. This I love was actually played live during Axl's NR intro back in the 90s. I doubt Slash never heard it or that is was never presented. He's also talked about Axl being into synths and stuff back then. I'm sure he heard some of it, even a little, if he said it.

I would have loved to hear what Slash and Dave Navarro could have done together back then. I would have even liked to have heard them as just a four piece, with no rhythm guitarist back in the 90s. The way Sympathy should have been.

Despite everything, Paul ended up being a great songwriting partner for Axl, though.

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