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Re: 2016 Presidential Election Thread
the gov't couldn't even enroll people in Obama care and that's a small fraction of what singe payer would be.
Except for about 21 million Americans. Are you doing Enron accounting by chance?
Likewise, the government already runs socialized healthcare plans for our seniors, our Vets, and for the poor. How many old people do you see marching in the street protesting their Medicare?
The VA does have issues, but it still provides quality healthcare for plenty of Vets. My wife has had two surgeries at the VA and they were both top notch. Her primary doctor is also with the VA. The doctor will even call her and talk to her on the phone.
The GOP are such defeatists. Nothing can ever be changed, nothing ever accomplished, nothing new can be implemented. Everything is a pipe dream.
We could have never built this country with that kind of attitude! If they're not capable of moving us into the 21st century, they could at least quit obstructing the rest of us. Or better yet, get out of government altogether. I never understood anybody who despised government, but also wanted to be an active participant in it. Not surprisingly it doesn't seem to yield very good results.
Re: 2016 Presidential Election Thread
Was watching the debate last night. Christie is such a hilarious fear monger. This is what he said (paraphrased):
Many Americans out there are afraid, and what these threats are telling us, is that terror can happen anywhere.
Which basically means "If you are not yet scared, it's time to become so."
You are right Christie. Many out there are afraid. Afraid because of guys like you.
He even brought out the 911 corpse, the only candidate I noticed to do so.
Re: 2016 Presidential Election Thread
Was watching the debate last night. Christie is such a hilarious fear monger. This is what he said (paraphrased):
Many Americans out there are afraid, and what these threats are telling us, is that terror can happen anywhere.
Which basically means "If you are not yet scared, it's time to become so."
You are right Christie. Many out there are afraid. Afraid because of guys like you.
He even brought out the 911 corpse, the only candidate I noticed to do so.
Hillary did as well, in an attempt to defend Wall Street... 
Re: 2016 Presidential Election Thread
Not surprising. Hillary makes Maggie Tatcher look like a sweet old aunt.
I can't get over the rhetoric of Trump. He called Iran a "terrorist nation". I don't know what a terrorist nation is, but the concept sounds like something out of South Park.
Re: 2016 Presidential Election Thread
RaZor wrote:misterID wrote:He wanted to privatized social security, and we would have lost that money in the market crash. The people who live on their ss would have lost everything. He was a fucking idiot who nearly ruined the country. Social security is okay, and it can be saved in the future with a few tweaks.
Bush neither wanted to privatize social security nor invest it in the stock market. And benefits would have stayed exactly the same for those already retired or close to being retired.
Bush wanted to take the first step towards privatization. At the end of the day it's what the conservatives want, disband SS entirely along with Medicare. Given the paltry average sum most Americans have in retirement, the outcome will be disastrous if they ever get their way.
That's like saying that Obamacare is the first step towards universal healthcare. And you can't know for sure that privatization would be a disaster, just like you can't know for sure what next weeks lottery numbers are going to be.
The average American's 401k balance doesn't really mean anything, if a privatized social security system is structured differently than a 401k. For example, they could require automatic enrollment for any employee working in the US to make sure everyone participates, the could require that employers pay in as well which is how I believe Europes retirement scemes work, and they could set guidelines for the investment that can be held in them to minimize the risk to the employee.
Bottom line, we could probably make privatized social security work. But we can probably save social security as well. We just need the political will, and the public demand for it to happen. And like most issues in this country, I don't think we'll get there until we're pretty much on the brink.
Re: 2016 Presidential Election Thread
buzzsaw wrote:the gov't couldn't even enroll people in Obama care and that's a small fraction of what singe payer would be.
Except for about 21 million Americans. Are you doing Enron accounting by chance?
Likewise, the government already runs socialized healthcare plans for our seniors, our Vets, and for the poor. How many old people do you see marching in the street protesting their Medicare?
The VA does have issues, but it still provides quality healthcare for plenty of Vets. My wife has had two surgeries at the VA and they were both top notch. Her primary doctor is also with the VA. The doctor will even call her and talk to her on the phone.
The GOP are such defeatists. Nothing can ever be changed, nothing ever accomplished, nothing new can be implemented. Everything is a pipe dream.
We could have never built this country with that kind of attitude! If they're not capable of moving us into the 21st century, they could at least quit obstructing the rest of us. Or better yet, get out of government altogether. I never understood anybody who despised government, but also wanted to be an active participant in it. Not surprisingly it doesn't seem to yield very good results.
Perhaps you forgot about enrollment. Go back and read how that went. The administration even had to admit it failed. Because it did.
Re: 2016 Presidential Election Thread
buzzsaw wrote:RaZor wrote:Not true, the insurance itself is a big part of the problem. There is a disconnect between the cost, the consumer, and the information needed to make economic decisions: http://www.zanebenefits.com/blog/seven- … care-costs
No. Not even close. Even if there was 100% transparency that most people won't understand anyway, the cost issue is not coming from insurance companies. The part they play is negotiating discounts with providers. Then providers just raise prices to get their money anyway. Lots to learn about insurance companies and how they work.
I know how insurance companies work buzz, I used to work for one. I also know how economics work, I have a degree in economics.
The market system works to drive down prices because consumers act in their own best interest, when they have the information they need to make informed decisions. Insurance separates the payer from the consumer, and reduces transparency. It actually works against the market.
The article I posted explains it pretty well, have you read it?
Update: Buzz, you're wrong when you say that insurance companies don't contribute to the increasing cost; but they are not the only force contributing to the increasing costs, and you make a lot of good points otherwise. Even without the insurance companies, prices would still be going up for a lot of the reasons you've been pointing out, that's why I said that healthcare is a failed market. It's a case in which market forces actually increase the price of a good instead of driving it down. Generally, the only way to correct a failed market is through government intervention.
I guess the insurance world is different than when you used to work in it. I make good points because I know what I'm talking about.
Gov't intervention and running things are 2 different things. You can't just decide one day to run insurance. It doesn't work that way. Look at Obama care. People are paying out the ass for insurance. Yet insurance companies claim to be losing money on the exchanges. How is that possible? Because the only people signing up are people using a lot of benefits. The only way it works is if everyone signs up, but I'm not giving up my once good and now decent coverage for crap coverage. Neither is anyone else. If they push single payer, they will not win any elections. People will stand up when pushed to the brink regardless of political affiliations.
Re: 2016 Presidential Election Thread
RaZor wrote:buzzsaw wrote:No. Not even close. Even if there was 100% transparency that most people won't understand anyway, the cost issue is not coming from insurance companies. The part they play is negotiating discounts with providers. Then providers just raise prices to get their money anyway. Lots to learn about insurance companies and how they work.
I know how insurance companies work buzz, I used to work for one. I also know how economics work, I have a degree in economics.
The market system works to drive down prices because consumers act in their own best interest, when they have the information they need to make informed decisions. Insurance separates the payer from the consumer, and reduces transparency. It actually works against the market.
The article I posted explains it pretty well, have you read it?
Update: Buzz, you're wrong when you say that insurance companies don't contribute to the increasing cost; but they are not the only force contributing to the increasing costs, and you make a lot of good points otherwise. Even without the insurance companies, prices would still be going up for a lot of the reasons you've been pointing out, that's why I said that healthcare is a failed market. It's a case in which market forces actually increase the price of a good instead of driving it down. Generally, the only way to correct a failed market is through government intervention.
I guess the insurance world is different than when you used to work in it. I make good points because I know what I'm talking about.
Gov't intervention and running things are 2 different things. You can't just decide one day to run insurance. It doesn't work that way. Look at Obama care. People are paying out the ass for insurance. Yet insurance companies claim to be losing money on the exchanges. How is that possible? Because the only people signing up are people using a lot of benefits. The only way it works is if everyone signs up, but I'm not giving up my once good and now decent coverage for crap coverage. Neither is anyone else. If they push single payer, they will not win any elections. People will stand up when pushed to the brink regardless of political affiliations.
Once good now decent, that's the thing, the market is trending toward shittier plans, I think that's going to continue to happen until enough people get fed up, and then single payer will be inevitable. We'll see, time will tell.
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Re: 2016 Presidential Election Thread
there is a solution, but it involves removing insurance companies and allowing the provider and customer negotiate. Patient would pay less and provider of care would make more.
For the poor that is where it gets more complex. Well my post just derailed.
Re: 2016 Presidential Election Thread
there is a solution, but it involves removing insurance companies and allowing the provider and customer negotiate. Patient would pay less and provider of care would make more.
For the poor that is where it gets more complex. Well my post just derailed.
Good luck with that. No provider is going to negotiate with a consumer.
