dave-gnfnr wrote:

The TWAT and IRS 99 leaks are from before BH joined the band.

There are cuts of these songs  without Robin.  But the question is does anyone have them.

It all depends on that version of the song it is, there is like 15 versions of each song. Both Fortus and Dizzy confirmed this.

I know. I meant that even the 2005 very first IRS leak still had Robin. In fact, Robin was in every single studio studio recording (excluding the remixes, of course) we had so far - even Going Down. This Madagascar demo would be the first one without him.

apex-twin wrote:

Yes, this sounds like it's from the transitional period between Beavan/Robin and RTB/Bucket in early 2000. As you said, the drums sound more Josh than Brain.

Hard to say for sure, but this is definitely the oldest version of Maddy so far.

Glad to see that I'm not the only one who thought the drums sounded more like Josh. I'm not 100% sure, but still.. didn't Brain joined the band a bit after Bucket?

Ragnar wrote:

The album cuts are bloated and poorly mixed (that's right, Axl & Caram). Part of the problem was obviously that there were too many options accumulated over the years and they ended up compiling everything from sub-bass to superfluous overdubs, because more is more.

I met Caram once. Asked how many layers of guitars were in Scraped. He laughed and said he couldn't possibly remember.

dave-gnfnr wrote:

I like the mixing more than the album version but the guitars are lacking in this version, if someone like evader can add in robins and BHs missing guitar parts, I think it would be way better.

If the album version was mixed like this version it would be way better.

The thing that makes me not like this version is the mess of a rhythem guitar player.

And I agree with you, this could be a cut from what Robin was not in the band, because when Robin left the band BH redid all his parts and Robin was removed

that mess of a guitar is paul or axl

It may be just Axl's idea of what he would like in that particular section. The final version indeed has a somewhat similar guitar lead, although much better played, of course.

zombux wrote:

might be one of those versions that had Robin deleted - after he left the band in 1999, with some later touches by RTB in 2000/2001, regardless of that Robin got back by that time.

Yep. But it's different from what we got previously. We had IRS (both in 1999 and 2000-ish) that still had tons of Robin's leads. Catcher 99 still had Robin's leads mixed with May's solos. TWAT too still had Robin. It's not like he was erased, he was still there - much like Bucket was still very much present in almost all of the final album.

vipicius wrote:

Do not you think that sometimes we think the demos are better than the final versions, just because it's something "new" and we hear the final versions much more often? It happened to me when I heard the demo versions of Appetite and UYI, but I soon realized that they were not exactly better, but different and "new". Of course there may be preference, but still...

I much prefer the demo versions of most CD songs, because they're much less muddy and more raw. I do prefer most studio versions of the Appetite and UYIs, though.

this is, together with existing 2001/2 live versions, a good example of what RTB was trying to do - he was hired, because the previous Beavan mixes were considered somewhat too "modern" and they needed to make the stuff more "classic".
which is, at least for me, a shame - because what Beavan did with Marilyn Manson just a few years ago (he produced Portrait, Antichrist Superstar and Mechanical Animals, and especially the latter two of them have MASSIVELY great sound). I'd still take ANY Beavan mix before ANYTHING else from RTB or later time.
still, this is an interesting insight into work-in-progress at one of the track we are very familiar with.