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elevendayempire
 Rep: 88 

Re: The Chinese Democracy Sequel References Thread

FlashFlood wrote:

Yeah but to be honest, and I’ve made the comparison before, if GNR releases what they feel is AFD 2 in 1995 it goes over quite poorly. I compare it to Subhuman Race by Skid Row...just terrible timing.

It’s not like 5 oclock set the world on fire (realized the pun as I was typing it but not changing it).

GN'R would've really struggled to get traction with pretty much anything in '95. Our perspective is a bit skewed as we're fans, but it was peak grunge, with Axl having badmouthed the martyred Cobain, and nu-metal looming on the horizon. GN'R was yesterday's news; the last people had seen of them was the bloated UYI tour with the horn section and the backup singers. Based on the material they had to work with at the time – It's 5 O'Clock Somewhere, This I Love, the nascent Fall To Pieces – they would've come across as horrendously dated. If nothing else, the Chinese Democracy saga kept the band's mystique alive, while Slash and Duff were dragged kicking and screaming into a contemporary rock sound by Scott Weiland.

monkeychow
 Rep: 641 

Re: The Chinese Democracy Sequel References Thread

monkeychow wrote:

I kinda see it as the other way around.

I think simple piano songs (at heart) like "This I Love" and simple guitar songs like "Neither Can I" are way more timeless than stuff like "Oh My God" or "Shackler's Revenge" that's using (then) modern effects.

I think an album full of 5'oclock riffs, and Axl ballads made in 1995 would have made a strong timeless classic rock record the way that YCBM and SCOM still sound like good songs.

James
 Rep: 644 

Re: The Chinese Democracy Sequel References Thread

James wrote:

august '99 - the "2,000 intensions" title is mentioned as a possible name in the famous kerrang article.

http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/arti … ticleid=27

in the article, they call out a bunch of song titles. 2 of which actually ended up on the album; the rest axl confirmed as nonsense. out of the 11 names mentioned, we only know of 2 actually being legitimate. that leaves kerrang with an 11% score. not exactly a passing grade.

I no longer believe 2000 Intentions as a concept ever actually existed. All they did was take a couple old song titles mentioned earlier, add in their own bullshit, and gave it a made up album title.

Click bait before click bait.

How did nobody ask him about this in the chats?

Yeah but to be honest, and I’ve made the comparison before, if GNR releases what they feel is AFD 2 in 1995 it goes over quite poorly. I compare it to Subhuman Race by Skid Row...just terrible timing.

I agree. They were the most uncool band in the world in the mid 90s. Worst case scenario its Skid Row...best case scenario its U2's Pop.

Either way you crumble the cookie its a disaster.

They could've moved on from it though. Load was a mistake by Metallica but they survived it and miraculously had a couple hits with it.


But then again - AFD2 would be a long way less 80s than Skid Row. Also...People were hanging on a new GNR record to bring rock back a bit. I remember my record store was absolutely nuts about TSI - selling shirts for it, posters everywhere. They were playing "Since I don't have you" on the radio. It got an insane amount of attention for something that's a throwaway covers album.

You're forgetting 1994 which is when they became uncool and nobody gave a crap. Sympathy for the Devil was dead on arrival and stores had piles of them rotting. The song was on a hit movie. I don't know if Axl/GNR were paying attention to this but I guarantee the label noticed the shift.

by '95, grunge was dead.

Yes it was but what was taking its place was so far removed from GNR that they might as well have been a grunge band.

everyone in the world wanted to know what was going on with guns n' roses.

They wanted to know what was going on with The Offspring, Green Day, Oasis, etc. and hip hop started dominating. You have to get into the last chapter of the 90s to see even small interest in GNR start to take shape. His lack of any promo 1994-98 was almost a career killer. When he announced in 96 he had fired Slash, the world farted and then listened to One Headlight.

He mistimed everything and that's just in the 90s. By the time he gets around to talking about his imminent opus, Limp Bizkit, Korn, etc. are now dominating .

monkeychow
 Rep: 641 

Re: The Chinese Democracy Sequel References Thread

monkeychow wrote:
kermit the Trump wrote:

You're forgetting 1994 which is when they became uncool and nobody gave a crap. Sympathy for the Devil was dead on arrival and stores had piles of them rotting. The song was on a hit movie. I don't know if Axl/GNR were paying attention to this but I guarantee the label noticed the shift.

I see your point but I also think part of that was due to lack of content by GNR.

UYI was a massive deal - but we'd all worn the damn cassettes out by then and been to the shows. The cycle had gone from 1991-1993 - it was time for new GNR stuff.

Although i love TSI - it didn't quite work cos the radio was pushing it as the new GNR album but it's just covers...it was supposed to be an EP to tide people over until an album....but yeah....then you get to 1994 a full year after TSI and GNR just drops ANOTHER cover....and although I like the stones one - it's not even a song where they do anything very GNRish in terms of changing up the original to make it better.

I think part of the bordom was that it was more of the same.

Compared to say Nirvana that had Nevermind in 91, In Utero in 93, then the MTV album in 94 which while it was covers and old songs was stylistically very different due to the  lack of heavy guitars whuch was their whole prior sound. Thats a lot of fresh content over a few years.

I think the world wanted a follow up from GNR. People were getting bored with the 80s and early 90s stuff but then. Grunge type stuff seemed fresh but has turned into a flash in the pan.

I think GNR needed to "answer" grunge with a strong as fuck classic rock album...but instead they released Estranged...possibly the most overblown of all GNR songs...with a 15 million dollar film clip...a song everyone and their dog had owned on the album for 2 years by then....and then sat around doing 70s covers for 2+ more years...before going silent for a few more.

Anyway I see your point, but i think its hard to know, as a think a properly creative and vital GNR would have perhaps altered the way pop culture tastes change - people were waiting on them - hell even in 2016 look how the media bought straight into the reunion - GNR was VERY VERY over with the mainstrean back in the day for a rock act...the world has always wanted more from them...but they've fought and fucked around now for 30 years...it's sad.

It's weird to me - like Axl seems to think the media is out to get him - but people loved the drama - and basically the world always wanted GNR to step up and deliver more of their world conquering early stuff - that's why people put up with the silence, why they tollerated fake line ups for 3 decades, why they don't write about Axl's voice cracking, why they overlook the lack of key members and call this a reunion....the world is waiting to give Axl a MASSIVE PASS FOR HIS BULLSHIT STILL - but the band seems hell bent on dying without doing it....

James
 Rep: 644 

Re: The Chinese Democracy Sequel References Thread

James wrote:

Although i love TSI - it didn't quite work cos the radio was pushing it as the new GNR album but it's just covers...it was supposed to be an EP to tide people over until an album

The label did a horrific job promoting this.

TSI had an identity crisis. No one knew what it was, what it was supposed to be, what they were doing with it, etc.

It wasn't even properly promoted as a covers album!

Radio fucked it up even worse but it wasn't their fault. The identity crisis suffered a trickle down effect. What song was first out the gates? You tell me. It depended on which DJ was on which shift. One night its Aint It Fun, then its Hair of the Dog, then its Black Leather. Then out of the blue, here comes SIDHY being pushed on top 40/pop radio which literally killed the record. Rock radio abandoned the album and after the song got a brief run on radio/MTV, you never heard about TSI again.

How much promo did it get? A Slash interview. Yep. That's it.

It had no chance. Anyone who wanted to listen to rock/grunge was listening to everything not named GNR...and nobody was asking about a new album. NOBODY.

I think GNR needed to "answer" grunge with a strong as fuck classic rock album...but instead they released Estranged...possibly the most overblown of all GNR songs...with a 15 million dollar film clip...a song everyone and their dog had owned on the album for 2 years by then....and then sat around doing 70s covers for 2+ more years...before going silent for a few more.

The milking of UYI still blows my mind.

What should've happened is a repeat of AFD-Lies....unleash TSI earlier while UYI is still on fire and ride off into the sunset with that. It would've required much better promotion of course.

They got lucky with UYI. Time that album any later, it bombs.

strong as fuck classic rock album

One problem: Nobody wanted a strong as fuck classic rock album from anybody. We were in the midst of a culture shift.

like Axl seems to think the media is out to get him

The media conspiracy was always a myth. The media loved him. They gravitated towards him.

He did valid points when it came to shit like magazines whipping up lies and fake articles but a lot of the other stuff was overblown.

The reception to 2001 should've shown him that they were ready to welcome him back with open arms.

metallex78
 Rep: 192 

Re: The Chinese Democracy Sequel References Thread

metallex78 wrote:

Since I Don’t Have You was such a weird choice for a single. It’s one of those self indulgent Axl moments.

They should’ve gone with Aint It Fun, which to me sounds like an actual Guns song, and have Attitude as the b-side, maybe even a live version of it from the UYI tour, and that would’ve been a nice closure on the UYI world tour chapter and thank you for all your support kinda thing

metallex78
 Rep: 192 

Re: The Chinese Democracy Sequel References Thread

metallex78 wrote:

I think if they dropped an album in 1996 of aggressive raw Slash riffing (like some that was on Five O’clock), with some big fuck off angsty Axl vocals on top, it could’ve gone down quite well. They could’ve taken the mantle for THE hard rock band to follow, after Metallica got a lot of backlash over the softer sounds on Load

elevendayempire
 Rep: 88 

Re: The Chinese Democracy Sequel References Thread

kermit the Trump wrote:

One problem: Nobody wanted a strong as fuck classic rock album from anybody. We were in the midst of a culture shift.

THIS. They were basically dead in the water in the mid-to-late 90s, all of them. Axl's experimenting and new sound in the late 90s got some press (most of it negative, painting him as a bandwagon-jumper). The later solo projects from Slash and the others got no traction. Slash and Duff were all set to make The Project a godawful rock throwback with the Buckcherry guys until Weiland came along and saved the day. Velvet Revolver was exactly the sort of thing they needed to be producing – solid classic rock riffs but with a contemporary edge and modern production. And even then it took until the early noughties before anyone was interested in what those guys from GN'R were up to.

esoterica
 Rep: 69 

Re: The Chinese Democracy Sequel References Thread

esoterica wrote:

Velvet also hit at a time of peak 80s nostalgia.

The alt rock bands were a palate cleanser from the pop craze and new metal goth rock thing. The table was perfectly set.

Smoking Guns
 Rep: 329 

Re: The Chinese Democracy Sequel References Thread

Smoking Guns wrote:

People are such pussies. GNR isn’t hair metal. They are so big they can drop a good album any time. Just like AC/DC, Aerosmith, and the Stones!!

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