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misterID
 Rep: 470 

Re: Terrorist Attack @ Pulse in Orlando

misterID wrote:
Randall Flagg wrote:
buzzsaw wrote:

She never sent anything classified, but it was labeled classified only afterwards. What exactly did she email that was potentially worse than this mass shooting?

Hard to answer since none of us (including you) know exactly what she did. Regardless of whether it was classified at the time, she should know there's potentially classified information there. But this isn't about that; this is about a guy that was going to kill a lot of people regardless of whether he could buy a gun legally or not.


That's not how classification works. There's not some suit who looks at information and then decides its classification.  If information originates from a secret or top secret system/contact, it is de facto classified at that level. Additionally, adding numerous details from an unclassified source can make something classified. I can tell you I'm deploying to Afganistan, and be ok. But if I tell you when and where I'm going to Afghanistan, I just made that email classified.

This is level 101 shit everyone in the government has to learn before they can even apply for a clearance. To claim that Clinton was unaware of this is akin to arguing Obama was unaware he was in charge of the military when he assumed the military. It's everyday common knowledge for those involved with it.

So the claim that "it didn't have classified markings at the time" is meaningless. It's a diversion tactic that has no relevance to the discussion and was only introduced because most people are completely ignorant as to how classified information is handled.

Oh, please. The ONLY classified information they could find was that she received an email that stated she needed to make a condolence call over the death of a foreign leader.  There was never a law against using a personal server. No laws were broken.  Colin Powell, Rice and Dick Cheney, and literally thousands of government cabinet workers have used personal emails with classified information, so until you right wingers start demanding retroactive prosecution for them, shut up already. Right Wingers are blowing $13,000 per day in tax dollars in order to investigate her. They have spent over $200 million investigating her since 1999. Good job. Money well spent.

slcpunk
 Rep: 149 

Re: Terrorist Attack @ Pulse in Orlando

slcpunk wrote:
Smoking Guns wrote:

The 2 brothers in Boston did not have Assult rifles and were able to kill 3 and hurt 300. Should we ban pressure cookers??

The primary use by pressure cookers 99.9% of the time is to cook food. While the primary use of a gun is to kill people. Although that's completely irrelevant since....

I'm really tired of this dishonest argument too. One side says more regulation is needed, and the right side of the aisle asks why they want to ban all guns.

Are conservatives incapable of reading English?

Or maybe math? As we can see, a gun allows asshole terrorists to kill people much more efficiently (and subsequently many more) than with a rigged pressure cooker. Therefore, people are advocating regulation/background checks that would make it more difficult for dickheads like this to murder Americans. The same thing Obama said last week.

Why is this basic concept so difficult to get through the thick skulls of conservatives?

Randall Flagg
 Rep: 130 

Re: Terrorist Attack @ Pulse in Orlando

Cramer wrote:
Smoking Guns wrote:

The 2 brothers in Boston did not have Assult rifles and were able to kill 3 and hurt 300. Should we ban pressure cookers??

The primary use by pressure cookers 99.9% of the time is to cook food. While the primary use of a gun is to kill people. Although that's completely irrelevant since....

I'm really tired of the dishonest argument too. One side says more regulation is needed, and the right side of the aisle asks why they want to ban all guns. Are you incapable of reading English?

What regulation(s) are you proposing?

slcpunk
 Rep: 149 

Re: Terrorist Attack @ Pulse in Orlando

slcpunk wrote:
misterID wrote:

Oh, please. The ONLY classified information they could find was that she received an email that stated she needed to make a condolence call over the death of a foreign leader.  There was never a law against using a personal server. No laws were broken.  Colin Powell, Rice and Dick Cheney, and literally thousands of government cabinet workers have used personal emails with classified information, so until you right wingers start demanding retroactive prosecution for them, shut up already. Right Wingers are blowing $13,000 per day in tax dollars in order to investigate her. They have spent over $200 million investigating her since 1999. Good job. Money well spent.

Nary a peep from them about the (baker's) dozen "Benghazis" during Bush's tenure either...wonder why that is?

Randall Flagg
 Rep: 130 

Re: Terrorist Attack @ Pulse in Orlando

misterID wrote:
Randall Flagg wrote:
buzzsaw wrote:

Hard to answer since none of us (including you) know exactly what she did. Regardless of whether it was classified at the time, she should know there's potentially classified information there. But this isn't about that; this is about a guy that was going to kill a lot of people regardless of whether he could buy a gun legally or not.


That's not how classification works. There's not some suit who looks at information and then decides its classification.  If information originates from a secret or top secret system/contact, it is de facto classified at that level. Additionally, adding numerous details from an unclassified source can make something classified. I can tell you I'm deploying to Afganistan, and be ok. But if I tell you when and where I'm going to Afghanistan, I just made that email classified.

This is level 101 shit everyone in the government has to learn before they can even apply for a clearance. To claim that Clinton was unaware of this is akin to arguing Obama was unaware he was in charge of the military when he assumed the military. It's everyday common knowledge for those involved with it.

So the claim that "it didn't have classified markings at the time" is meaningless. It's a diversion tactic that has no relevance to the discussion and was only introduced because most people are completely ignorant as to how classified information is handled.

Oh, please. The ONLY classified information they could find was that she received an email that stated she needed to make a condolence call over the death of a foreign leader.  There was never a law against using a personal server. No laws were broken.  Colin Powell, Rice and Dick Cheney, and literally thousands of government cabinet workers have used personal emails with classified information, so until you right wingers start demanding retroactive prosecution for them, shut up already. Right Wingers are blowing $13,000 per day in tax dollars in order to investigate her. They have spent over $200 million investigating her since 1999. Good job. Money well spent.

You can't just dismiss it. Your opinion of what is "classified" is irrelevant. It's a pretty objective standard.

You guys want to talk about false equivalence. Email was in its infancy when Powell was secretary. By his own admission he had a Juno account and only sent a few hundred, if that, while in office. He wasn't communicating drone information his aide downloaded from a Secret computer and emailed to an unclassified address. I have never read anything on Cheney, but keeping the comparison equivalent, did Cheney setup a private network that all correspondence went to and were only through court order provided in paper form.  No validation that the American public received full disclosure under the FOIA.

So no, it's not the same. And since I personally oversaw heavy fines and military punishment for Americans who did something as simple as hooking up their personal computer to a government, unclassified network, yea I think I'm more qualified to speak on this than you or some blogger from MotherJones.

buzzsaw
 Rep: 423 

Re: Terrorist Attack @ Pulse in Orlando

buzzsaw wrote:

If you guys want to waste time going back and forth about all the shit both sides have done wrong over the years, go for it.  If you want to pretend Obama didn't waste millions of dollars going after conservative organizations, go fuck yourselves.  The ignorance is more than disturbing.  They are all fuckheads, yet you guys want to pretend the dems can do no wrong and everything is STILL Bush's fault.  Idiots, the whole lot of you.  Learn something.  Educate yourselves at least slightly about what is really going on out there.  Once you do, you won't be so enamored with the politicians you're supporting.

misterID
 Rep: 470 

Re: Terrorist Attack @ Pulse in Orlando

misterID wrote:

Take a pill, buzz, the only one truly bent and using generalized arguments where you don't have to think real hard on whatever subject you want to bitch about so you can pretend you're smarter than anyone else is you. You really are the old fart on the bench.

There is no such thing as a perfect candidate, there is no one I'm going to agree with on everything, I can be realistic and objective, but there are real dangerous people like the Donald Trumps of the world, that make me much closer to one candidate than a loose cannon on a power trip.

buzzsaw
 Rep: 423 

Re: Terrorist Attack @ Pulse in Orlando

buzzsaw wrote:

I'm starting to think you don't even read how one sided everything you post is, and it started long before trump, but you keep living in your dream world.

It really is as simple as I make it. I don't have to pretend to be smarter than anyone.   Your words take care of that for me. See, I never claim to know it all, but I can tell right from wrong and one sided from objectivity.  You are far, far from objective.

Smoking Guns
 Rep: 330 

Re: Terrorist Attack @ Pulse in Orlando

Smoking Guns wrote:

Wow this has escalated quickly.

I am not a huge fan of the AR15 only because that gun can do so much damage in the hand of a loon.

Neemo
 Rep: 483 

Re: Terrorist Attack @ Pulse in Orlando

Neemo wrote:

A single shot for any gun can kill someone

That's enough damage for me to know that guns should be regulated...there are way too many mass murders in the United states for anyone to be able to defend this issue IMO there are police forces and armies to handle this kind of shit...civilians don't need weapons

It's always stated that Americans need guns to defend themselves...yet whenever it matters most the guns aren't handy to do so

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