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James
 Rep: 644 

Re: WTF happened to…Catcher in the Rye

James wrote:
davegnfnr2k wrote:
James wrote:
Sky Dog wrote:

Tommy has backed that up...RTB didn’t work and they thought the album was done.

In hindsight that is the point of no return.

You could make a case for the Ezrin "3 songs" fiasco but the damage hadn't been done yet. That can be walked back, everyone take a breather, and negotiate a release with the label.

He couldn't/wouldn't stick to his guns and all momentum was lost. They never got it back.

The project needed competent management from day one...or at least at the moment that the album was ready in 2001 and 2002.

Someone like Azoff would've had the album on the launch pad before the opening Jungle scream at the VMAs.

Baffling levels of incompetence allowed a major rock band on a major tour launching a comeback on national television to not have a single song....much less an album...to be in stores....and then allow the singer to shit can the idea of a coming album in an interview right after the performance.

Then it gets worse....

He abandons his own band in Philly to fend for themselves.


A year later they accidentally stumble into a nationwide buzz when IRS leaks on the Trunk show. Literally within hours, they stomp this buzz to death in its cradle.

Just unbelievable stupidity.

I can't imagine how frustrating this shit must have been for people like Tommy and Robin.

The situation was so much worse than fans believed at the time.

Like I said...they needed real management.

The worst thing about that 3 song thing is its total BS.
Just listening to the locker leaks you hear way more than three songs that could be hits.
You can make a really great album out of the CD demos, the extra tracks with vocals and the instrumentals with the missing vocals.


Maybe so....but the overall point he was making is valid.

It was not up to snuff in comparison to the old band... but what Ezrin failed to realize is this....

Every album doesn't have to be Appetite for Destruction.

As Axl S pointed out, all it needed was ONE hit.

One.

Come out of the gates swinging with a kick ass rocker.

That puts them back on the map. Then release a slow song...he's got plenty to choose from....then one more single to wrap it up....

Then Round 2.

Disc 1 of the Village Sessions leak would have been suitable as an album in 2000.

Re: WTF happened to…Catcher in the Rye

Sky Dog wrote:

Yep ...disc 1 with Bucket solos and IRS and we have a solid rock record....you can’t have Silkworms though...we didn’t need My World part 2.

James
 Rep: 644 

Re: WTF happened to…Catcher in the Rye

James wrote:
Sky Dog wrote:

Yep ...disc 1 with Bucket solos and IRS and we have a solid rock record....you can’t have Silkworms though...we didn’t need My World part 2.

I like the wackiness the song represents. It's like... what will they do next?!?

In that specific context... it's ok.

In a world where the album comes out... it's going to stick out like a sore thumb. It's essentially a Prodigy ripoff...and media and fans would point this out.


Chinese Democracy Fall 2000 or summer 2001

Chinese Democracy
Madagascar
Atlas Shrugged
IRS
Perhaps
Prostitute
Riad
Catcher in the Rye
The Blues
There Was A Time

If Oklahoma has great lyrics/vocals, it goes on the album.



First single: Chinese Democracy
B side: Silkworms

Second single: The Blues
B side: Hardschool

Third single: Catcher in the Rye
B side: Devious Bastard

James
 Rep: 644 

Re: WTF happened to…Catcher in the Rye

James wrote:

After that 2000-01 album runs its course and we're in 2002 with a stable lineup, a band confident with the new material and the fact this is all really happening....it's time for "Round 2".

With the VMAs on the horizon, which includes a best video nomination for Catcher in the Rye, the band announces they'll appear at the VMAs to perform the first single off their upcoming album, PRL.


PRL


PRL(Thyme)
Oklahoma
The Ides of March
Sorry
The General
If the World
Shackler's Revenge
Zodiac 13
Soul Monster
This I Love


After wrapping up the final leg of the tour and take a six month break, the GNR camp announces they'll be heading back to the studio.

While GNR go quiet as they catch their breath to get ready for the next round, the media starts paying close attention to a new supergroup calling itself Velvet Revolver. People starting to wonder if they can stack up to a rejuvenated Guns N Roses now running full throttle......

Re: WTF happened to…Catcher in the Rye

Sky Dog wrote:

I’m thinking first single Chinese and second TWAT.....got to go with your best.

And a fleshed out Silkworms goes on album 2.

misterID
 Rep: 468 

Re: WTF happened to…Catcher in the Rye

misterID wrote:

Axl once said, way back in the day, CD would be 13 tracks and ten bonus songs. A lot of those instrumentals were going to stay that way.

Again, Ezrin is kind of a sleaze. He wants songwriting credit on the albums he produces. The reason there were only "three songs" wasn't because of quality, but Ezrin wanted him to write a new album with him. And it could very well have been part of a plan to get him back with the original band.

Unpopular opinion: the RTB version of the album is the superior version.

Re: WTF happened to…Catcher in the Rye

Sky Dog wrote:

What were the exact dates of the RTB recordings?

misterID
 Rep: 468 

Re: WTF happened to…Catcher in the Rye

misterID wrote:

I think he came in the same time as Brain. I want to say he was fired in '02? Caram I think took over in '03.

davegnfnr2k
 Rep: 0 

Re: WTF happened to…Catcher in the Rye

davegnfnr2k wrote:

In 2002 Axl talked about the three album thing and trying to ease fans into the new direction Gnr would be going, the  first album could have been all the rockers so something like this

CD
Better
The Blues
Madagascar
Sorry
Hard School
Perhaps
Catcher in the rye
Atlas
Quick Song
Rebel
Oklahoma

The first single should have been Hard School

Album two could have been something like

Shackles
Riyadh
If the world
TWAT
Prostititute
State of Grace
Elvis
Tonto
D-Tune

Something like that

Then the 3rd album would have been all the crazy industrial stuff  and BH heavy stuff

Silkworms
Eye on you
Riad
Prom
Zodiac
The general

but you get the idea

James
 Rep: 644 

Re: WTF happened to…Catcher in the Rye

James wrote:

No matter how you approach a CD tracklist in an alternate universe, you're sorta boxed in to including a specific set of songs due to them being mentioned from jump street....

Chinese Democracy
The Blues
Madagascar
Prostitute
Catcher in the Rye
There Was A Time

This I Love probably goes in this category as well... although I would gladly exclude it.


You only have room to add maybe 5-6 tracks.

Before someone says Catcher is meant for the third album....

Bullshit....it's one of the best songs he's got.

It's going on the first album.


Looking back on all this stuff.... it's a head scratcher how they had the nerve to pull the trigger on Oh My God when the world is watching and so much rides on it.

It was the right time to unveil a new song....

....but the wrong soundtrack.

They were boxed into a certain style. It had to thematically fit with everything else on it.

The only songs possible...

Oh My God
Silkworms
State of Grace

Grace probably isn't possible at that point...so that leaves Silkworms.

Can that make any waves in 1999? Maybe. It's a Prodigy knockoff...it might chart. Other than that, it sinks like a stone due to no follow through, the fact they still don't have the best song on the soundtrack, etc.

It's unfortunate that a film like The Sixth Sense, Fight Club, The Matrix, didn't want a new GNR song.

It could've been a game changer.

If the world gets to hear something like Catcher in the Rye, The Blues, etc in 1999, it creates genuine anticipation and the label then has an incentive to tit in stores.

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