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- monkeychow
- Rep: 661
Re: Elementary School Shooting in US
Great post buzz....it's interesting to think about these things.
I'm referring to crime such as burglary where the criminal is armed. Killing someone isn't their goal; the goal is to steal without getting killed or caught. They will pick on the weak.
So if that's correct logically the USA should have lower burglary rates than countries with weapon bans right? As in countries with weapons control the houses are soft targets but in the USA you have to be more committed to burgle due to the high likelyhood of the house having a defensive gun.
I don't have stats for that but I'd be highly surprised.
I suspect rather than hunting out the weak..most burglary's are just crimes of opportunity, and with the exception of the psychos we agreed about, the only reason to bring a gun would be to create an emergency exit if you get busted or in the event that the homeowner had a gun....I'd suspect that by arming homeowners you'd actually be increasing the likelihood of them getting shot as criminals will be forced to carry a gun to keep an advantage....and desperate people do desperate things.
To me it seems like ost people robbing a house will just want to get out if caught. And most homeowners just want them to get out, and maybe be arrested second.... So if you give both sides guns then it's just going to make a standoff more deadly.
I can't prove it, but I submit rather than deter crime it's just causing the results of crimes that were going to happen anyway to have unfortunate endings.
Banks are hardly heavily fortified, and bank robberies where people storm the bank only happen on tv. Most bank robberies are actually pretty low key with a note.
I was thinking of this incident:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Hollywood_shootout
Those people came prepared for a serious fight.
However, I'll give you that that may be a fairly rare circumstance, much as I discount the 14 year old boy hero story as being an exceptional situation that isn't normal - and doesn't justify all the negative side effects of gun ownership.
- monkeychow
- Rep: 661
Re: Elementary School Shooting in US
Didn't say it was.
But I think it's a fantasy that the level of gun ownership in the USA acts as a crime deterrent. Or if it does...it's minimal compared to the corresponding rise in homicide, successful suicide, and accidental shootings that gun ownership causes.
Re: Elementary School Shooting in US
Didn't say it was.
But I think it's a fantasy that the level of gun ownership in the USA acts as a crime deterrent. Or if it does...it's minimal compared to the corresponding rise in homicide, successful suicide, and accidental shootings that gun ownership causes.
I think you're missing the point. Home invasion is low at the very least partially because of gun ownership. Gun accidnets are minimal, though I did know a kid that was killed accidentally when I was a kid. I don't know anybody else personally that has been shot or had a family member shot. Again, I think it goes to a misconception on where the gun crimes are taking place. Gun violence is very localized to poor/low income areas outside of the rare crimes of passion or mass shooting. If you aren't involved in any of that stuff or living in an area where tht stuff happens, there's a 99.9% chance that you are completely safe from a gun crime. The reason these mass shootings/crimes of passion make the news is because they happen in places you don't expect a gun crime to happen, not just because of the number of people involved.
In addition to that, the whole point of the second amendment isn't to protect your home from home invasion; it's to protect your home from the gov't. This country was founded on that principle and it's one people take very seriously. That security is very real. Nobody is invading the US - not physically at least. Maybe it's outdated, but it is a core belief in this country.
Re: Elementary School Shooting in US
Bono - fuck off. Seriously. You've been nothing but a mega dick in this whole thread and you still are. Be glad I'm not a mod or you'd be gone again.
Great point.
Prime example of the double standard on this board. Had I posted that I'd have been banned. Hilarious. If you were a mod I'd be gone? Wow. Get righteous dude! You're a joke.
Re: Elementary School Shooting in US
buzzsaw wrote:Bono - fuck off. Seriously. You've been nothing but a mega dick in this whole thread and you still are. Be glad I'm not a mod or you'd be gone again.
Great point.
Prime example of the double standard on this board. Had I posted that I'd have been banned. Hilarious. If you were a mod I'd be gone? Wow. Get righteous dude! You're a joke.
Yes, if I had your posting history, I'd be gone. But I don't, and I'm completely right with the point I make. You've been trolling this thread since the beginning claiming to know everything yet proving with every post that you really know nothing and are here just to stir the pot. If the mods weren't afraid of this thread, you'd be gone already...instead of complaining, thank your lucky stars.
Re: Elementary School Shooting in US
Please let's not let this degenerate into a shit slinging match
I'm not afraid of this thread dunno why you say.that....there is just no point in disucussing something if u guys arent interested in opening ur eyes to the fact that at least imo ur right to bear arms is outdated and dangerous to your general public, mass murders in schools and theatres is all the proof I need that shit isn't working, but aparently I know nothing so I am bowing out, still monitoring tho so let's keep it civil or I will shut it down
Re: Elementary School Shooting in US
Please let's not let this degenerate into a shit slinging match
I'm not afraid of this thread dunno why you say.that....there is just no point in disucussing something if u guys arent interested in opening ur eyes to the fact that at least imo ur right to bear arms is outdated and dangerous to your general public, mass murders in schools and theatres is all the proof I need that shit isn't working, but aparently I know nothing so I am bowing out, still monitoring tho so let's keep it civil or I will shut it down
See, that's just it Neemo. You don't get to tell us that something this country was founded on is outdated. You're talking to someone that doesn't own a gun here, not some crazy NRA apologist. Just because you don't understand something doesn't mean it's wrong. It means you don't understand it. What you said is completely insulting to me as a US citizen. I understand you didn't mean it to come out that way, but that's exactly how it comes out. You don't know what's best for us. You have no idea what is best for us; you have no understanding of our culture. All you guys go by is what you see on tv or what you hear on the news which is nothing like what it is to live in 99% of the country.
You worry about your country and let us worry about ours. If everyone thinks we're so idiotic, maybe it's about time we stopped helping anybody else and only worried about us.
Re: Elementary School Shooting in US
For the record, I haven't been able to keep up with this thread due to time issues. Back at the beginning, I posted that anyone was welcome to PM me if they had any issues with insults flying that I hadn't seen. So if Bono and/or buzz or anyone else had a problem with the way the thread is or isn't being moderated, they could have PM'd me at any point.
Either way, Neemo has been keeping an eye on it and saw no reason to ban anyone. He's been at the moderating game a lot longer than me and he's great at it. It appears to me that his laying low is being mistaken for being "afraid".
Don't get me wrong...I don't care. Bono can say whatever idiotic things he wants to say and it won't bother me personally. It's been years since I reported anybody and if I remember correctly that was for a completely uncalled for personal attack. I don't really care what people say.
But anyone that has been reading this thread can't say there haven't been insults flung out there, and most of them aimed at the US and anyone supporting the idea that we should have the right to decide our own rules and/or things that work other places don't work here. This thread has basically been the world slinging insults at the US, and bono just took it to the point that I was sick of his shit and gave him exactly what he deserved. At least most of the other posters were trying to have a discussion; bono was just being an asshole, so I called him on it.
He then went into is typical poor me, everybody's picking on me shit instead of accepting any responsibility for his words. Then he went to give negative karma (like he always does when anyone dares to disagree with him) and I expect him to give me more negative karma when he sees I responded to his...it's always the same cycle with bono. Then a little more poor me followed by a rant against society in general for shitting on him.
