This is just ignorant.  The same shit you get pissed that people do about your black Jesus. 

None of these people give a shit about anything to do with you other than your vote and your tax dollars.  Congratulations.  You're as big of a tool as the people you berate on a daily basis.

So the person has no responsibility to know what they are signing or doing?  It's all the bank's fault?  They should just take whatever the bank gives them without doing any research on their own in an era where research is easier than ever?  I don't think I'll ever agree with that.

I don't know what the number is (assuming you're referring to unemployment) .  I don't pretend to have access to all of the data needed to make a fair assessment.  Do I think it's 5% or whatever Obama claimed it was?  No, even if you exclude the people not making an effort I'm pretty sure it's higher than that.  30-40%?  No, it's not that either, though I don't know what he was referring to when he made the statement because I ignore most of the hot air coming from Trump.  If you're counting under-employed meaning people qualified for good jobs that took shitty ones to put food on the table, it's probably in the mid-teens at least.  The numbers can be manipulated to say a lot of different things depending on what you're looking at.  Technically the under-employed are employed, but they are making $12/hr at Home Depot instead of 60K as an electrician or whatever (just making up the numbers here as I am not a trades industry expert).  So yes they are employed, but that person will tell a different story than the numbers will.  People get all caught up in the numbers; I tend to get more caught up in the personal situations.  Since I hear people's stories way more than I hear numbers, I focus on the people.  What are they saying?  How are they feeling?  They (in general) don't feel as good about things as Obama did.  Doesn't mean they are right and doesn't mean that there aren't people (myself included) that are doing great.  All I can do is relay the experiences I have which are at least real.  Numbers are numbers and they are fine, but real-life experiences trump any number in my book.

  That sounds familiar

every administration does this.  Learn more about how economies/economics work.  Data lags the actual changes.  Then if you don't like the data, you can just change the numbers to whatever you want them to be (see Obama's unemployment numbers).  It's all a big joke on you.

You know how you defend it?  You don't take out the loans.  You take personal responsibility for your decisions.  You don't buy the house that's too big.  You don't buy the newest car.  The government shouldn't be telling us what we can and can't do on every single subject.  The problem isn't the loans; it's the people taking out the loans.  You always point the finger at the wrong place.  They aren't going to offer a product if there isn't a market for it.  Business 101. 

You don't seem to understand what most conservatives actually stand for.  You get caught up in the rhetoric because you live off of the one liners from the media.  I don't pretend to know what Liberals stand for on the financial side of things.  It makes no sense at all.  The ONLY thing they accomplish is making more people dependent on the gov't.  I don't see them trotting out their individual Liberal financial successes come election time.  Why is that?  Because there are too few to mention?  It's because it's failed policy.  People don't generally recover from being on welfare because the system makes it easier for them to not even bother trying.  We'll take care of you, but we're going to put you in position to keep failing.  We're going to put you with other people that have failed so you don't see how to do better and you do see that welfare is an accepted way of life.  It becomes normal.  It's the same reason prison doesn't rehabilitate people.  You surround them with the bad and expect something good to come out of it.  That's not how it works.

People need hope.  Hope isn't you can survive, but you'll be poor forever.  That's not hope at all.  That's hopeless.  There are success stories out there.  People have come from nothing and done well for themselves through hard work.  Not Rockefeller well for themselves in most cases, but well. I've shared my story here.  Others have as well.  We didn't all start at the same place nor did we all end at the same place, but we succeeded in having a better life than most people coming from where we came from.  Why?  Because we didn't use the assistance as a way of life.  I can't speak for the others, but it was embarrassing for our family and we did everything we could to not have to rely on it.  I'm not some super genius or anything like that.  I didn't go to college.  I worked hard (even though I am lazy by nature) because I knew that was the only way things would get better.  I (like almost everybody) had opportunities fall into my lap through little more than just luck; the difference is that I took advantage of them.  I learned everything I could from them.  Even jobs I hated taught me things that have benefited me later on.  Your first job isn't supposed to hand you a living wage; it's supposed to teach you the skills you need to get a job that can provide you with a living wage.  But nobody wants to earn anything; they think they deserve it just for being alive.  No.  NO.  NO!  So many people in these pay me $15/hr to flip a burger jobs can't be bothered to show up on time or even wash their hands after using the restroom.  I'm sorry...if you can't even do the basics, you don't deserve the basics much less $15/hr.  If you CAN do the basics (and you actually DO them), you're not going to be flipping burgers forever.  The people begging for $15/hr for a job that isn't worth $15/hr are the same people that are going to be in those jobs forever because they don't have the ability, ambition, or desire to earn more.  Here's the harshest reality for them (even if they aren't replaced by computers): they will still be too poor making $15/hr because someone is always at the bottom and they'll be demanding more again.  It's a never ending cycle that can only change through effort (and usually minimal effort at that).

Blast me.  Don't care.  There's a whole lot of truth in there even if you don't agree with all of it.  Republicans suck because they don't give a shit about the poor.  Democrats suck because they don't care about anything other than making more people poor and adding to their voting base.  It's just a horrible mess that we pay for while fighting among ourselves about why the other side sucks more instead of realizing we're all being played by both of them while they celebrate together behind closed doors.  They both know the answer that is best of us is in the middle ground somewhere, but as long as the money keeps pouring in for them, they couldn't care less about finding a solution for anything.

If you guys want to have a non-political discussion on healthcare in a different thread, I'll come back more often to participate.  This thread disgusts me still, but there's been some good discussion over the last page or so.

Is Jon going to Force choke her and she dies of a broken heart?