buzzsaw wrote:

RaZor wrote:

I know how insurance companies work buzz, I used to work for one.  I also know how economics work, I have a degree in economics. 

The market system works to drive down prices because consumers act in their own best interest, when they have the information they need to make informed decisions.  Insurance separates the payer from the consumer, and reduces transparency. It actually works against the market.

The article I posted explains it pretty well, have you read it?

Update:  Buzz, you're wrong when you say that insurance companies don't contribute to the increasing cost; but they are not the only force contributing to the increasing costs, and you make a lot of good points otherwise.  Even without the insurance companies, prices would still be going up for a lot of the reasons you've been pointing out, that's why I said that healthcare is a failed market. It's a case in which market forces actually increase the price of a good instead of driving it down. Generally, the only way to correct a failed market is through government intervention.

I guess the insurance world is different than when you used to work in it. I make good points because I know what I'm talking about.

Gov't intervention and running things are 2 different things. You can't just decide one day to run insurance. It doesn't work that way.  Look at Obama care. People are paying out the ass for insurance. Yet insurance companies claim to be losing money on the exchanges. How is that possible?   Because the only people signing up are people using a lot of benefits. The only way it works is if everyone signs up, but I'm not giving up my once good and now decent coverage for crap coverage. Neither is anyone else. If they push single payer, they will not win any elections. People will stand up when pushed to the brink regardless of political affiliations.

Once good now decent, that's the thing, the market is trending toward shittier plans, I think that's going to continue to happen until enough people get fed up, and then single payer will be inevitable. We'll see, time will tell.

We should not be grouping Izzy with Adler, those are two completely different things.

buzzsaw wrote:

the gov't couldn't even enroll people in Obama care and that's a small fraction of what singe payer would be.

Except for about 21 million Americans. Are you doing Enron accounting by chance?

Likewise, the government already runs socialized healthcare plans for our seniors, our Vets, and for the poor. How many old people do you see marching in the street protesting their Medicare?

The VA does have issues, but it still provides quality healthcare for plenty of Vets. My wife has had two surgeries at the VA and they were both top notch. Her primary doctor is also with the VA. The doctor will even call her and talk to her on the phone.

The GOP are such defeatists. Nothing can ever be changed, nothing ever accomplished, nothing new can be implemented. Everything is a pipe dream.

We could have never built this country with that kind of attitude! If they're not capable of moving us into the 21st century, they could at least quit obstructing the rest of us. Or better yet, get out of government altogether. I never understood anybody who despised government, but also wanted to be an active participant in it. Not surprisingly it doesn't seem to yield very good results.