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#1811 Re: The Garden » 2016 Presidential Election Thread » 530 weeks ago
Here's a good analysis of a huge Trump problem: not minorities or immigrants, but Republican women.
Not a problem at the voting polls..
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/donald-t … d=37661711
Trump won the women vote in 11 of the first 15 primaries. He has alpha male appeal.
#1812 Re: The Garden » 2016 Presidential Election Thread » 530 weeks ago
A good point I thought the piece made was that republicans are coming out in support for Trump in important states (and in large numbers), while Hillary mostly does good in irrelevant ones. It's hard to predict of course, but if it's anything winning this election for Trump, it is enthusiasm for him and lack of it for Hillary.
He may be able to adjust his act, become more amiable. Hillary is not going to increase her popularity whatever she does. She's barely holding it together as is, propped up by full establishment support. And even if Trump couldn't adjust, his attraction of irregular and non voters could be enough to offset any sit home protest on the republican side. He may even get some Bernie voters bent on sticking it to the establishment.
#1813 Re: The Garden » 2016 Presidential Election Thread » 530 weeks ago
The DNC Is About to Coronate Donald Trump
Donald Trump is going to be the next president of the United States, and he will have the Democratic National Committee to thank for it. Much has been made of the "math" of the Democratic nomination, and how it favors Hillary Clinton -- in large part due to her huge lead in unpledged "superdelegates."
But for a moment, let's set aside the math of the Democratic primary, and look at the big picture: What matters for the general election is who can win swing states and ensure high voter turnout and enthusiasm in solidly blue states. In this regard, Bernie Sanders is clearly the more electable candidate.
Swing States, Blue States
The 10 closest races in 2012 were in Nevada, Colorado, Minnesota, Iowa, Pennsylvania, New Hampshire, Florida, Ohio, Virginia and North Carolina. Six of these have voted so far in primary contests. Of these, Sanders won three by a landslide (New Hampshire, Colorado, Minnesota) and virtually tied in two others (narrowly losing Nevada and Iowa). The only swing-state that Hillary Clinton decisively won so far is Virginia, which actually broke from Mitt Romney in 2012. In short, Bernie Sanders has a decisive edge in swing states.
As for solidly-blue states, only four have voted so far, but the outcome is clear: Bernie Sanders decisively won Vermont and Maine, pulled a huge upset in Michigan, and virtually tied Hillary Clinton in Massachusetts. Clinton has not decisively won even one single solidly-blue state. Instead, virtually all of her pledged delegate lead comes from handily winning in solidly red states which she (or any Democrat) would be highly-unlikely to win in a general election. But even this lead would likely be erased as the contest heads to bluer states.
Hillary Clinton's main advantage with regards to winning the nomination is not public sentiment, but instead, due to unelected superdelegates whose purpose, according to DNC Chairwoman Debbie Wasserman Schultz, is to suppress grassroots candidates in favor of the establishment choice. And it looks like they will have their way: As a result of the superdelegates voting almost unanimously for Hillary Clinton, often in clear defiance of the popular will of their states, the math does indeed look bleak for Bernie Sanders to win the Democratic nomination. Barring a major grassroots revolt, Hillary Clinton will seize the nomination. And she will lose to Donald Trump.
Polling Doesn't Matter
I know, here people are going to say "Look at the polls! They show Hillary winning against Trump!" But there are three big issues here:
First, polling more than six months prior to a race is not terribly predictive in general.
Second, Trump has consistently confounded polls and projections that predicted he could never win (ditto for Sanders, for that matter). Ceteris paribus, there is no reason to believe these dynamics would fundamentally change in the general election: Trump has been antifragile -- rising ever-higher despite (in many respects because of) scandals and gaffes that would have ruined most campaigns. The ridiculous amounts of money being spent on negative ads against him in critical states seem to be totally wasted.
Third, there are currently six candidates in the race, and the hope that another candidate may ultimately win the nomination affects how people perceive theoretical head-to-head matchups. When the only possible candidates are Trump v. Clinton, the public is going to break towards Trump.
Here's why:
Delegate Map, Clinton v. Trump
Again, what matters in a general election is who wins swing states and who turns out their base. So let's see how things look in a head-to-head between Clinton and Trump:
Remember the five out of six swing states that Hillary either decisively lost or tied in? Four of these have voted on the Republican side, and Trump handily won half of them (New Hampshire, Nevada). Remember the only swing state that Clinton decisively won (Virginia)? Trump carried that one was well -- and again, it broke for Romney in 2012. Remember how Hillary has won primarily in solidly-red states in the south during the Democratic primary? Guess who carried all of these rather decisively on the Republican side, and often with record turnout? That's right, Donald Trump.
That is, Trump is likely to decisively beat Clinton in virtually all of the states that she has performed strongly in so far, and seems poised to win many of the states she lost as well. This leaves her relying heavily on the solidly blue states, which overwhelmingly voted against her in the primaries, suggesting that enthusiasm will not be high with her base. Forget national polling. When one takes a sober look at the electoral map -- at who can turn out their base in solidly partisan states and appeal in swing states, based on how the primaries have turned out thus far, the edge is cleanly with Donald Trump over Hillary Clinton.
But it gets worse:
Trump has a large and passionate base. And while many Republicans are not comfortable with Trump, they passionately hate Hillary Clinton -- and faced with such a stark choice, most would vote for Trump if only to deny Clinton the White House. Reports of Republican elites who say they'd vote for Hillary over Trump are more-or-less meaningless in terms of indicating how most voters will perform: the entire Trump phenomena is a testament to how far out of touch these party elites are with their voting base. Make no mistake: Republicans will rally around Trump (or against Clinton), and they will turn out in large numbers to do so.
The same cannot be said on the other side:
A large number of Democrats cannot bring themselves to vote for Hillary Clinton under any circumstances -- and while many of these are unlikely to vote for Trump, they may well stay home on Election Day. This scenario would itself be damning for Clinton's candidacy: Democrats rely heavily on uncharacteristically-large left-leaning turnout in presidential election years to win national races. Absent this, they stand no chance--particularly in light of the advantage Trump already seems to have in swing states and with his base.
But the reality of the matter is that many Sanders supporters will not only abstain, they will actually vote for Trump if Hillary wins the nomination. For some, it would be a vote to punish the DNC for its anti-Democratic coronation of Clinton (via the superdelegates). For others, it'd be a nihilistic act: an attempt to burn down the establishment, or to give America "the candidate it deserves."
But from exit polling we know that many others, particularly in swing states with open primaries, were legitimately torn between Sanders and Trump as the best candidate to direct their anti-establishment sentiment. And if Sanders loses the Democratic nomination, those who voted for him for this reason would not turn around and vote for someone like Hillary Clinton in a general election -- they would vote for Trump. And to top it all off, there are a number of other Democrats who staunchly support the Donald over all the other candidates regardless--in fact, they are an important component of his support base.
All of this bodes ill for Hillary Clinton in a general election.
Why Clinton Can't Win
Sanders is dominating the blue states and swing states. Trump is dominating the red states and swing states. The takeaway should be clear: The American people in general, and particularly the states that will decide this election, do not want an establishment candidate. A Trump v. Clinton race could play out much like Ronald Reagan v. Bush Sr., Carter and Mondale: races where people with the "right" resumes failed to connect with the public -- losing handily to a contender who seemed far less qualified or competent, and perhaps even dangerous, but who really "gets" the times we're living in and what people are looking for in this moment.
Bernie Sanders can beat Donald Trump, possibly taking the House and Senate with him. Hillary Clinton can do none of these things. Polls be damned: if Hillary Clinton wins the Democratic nomination, Donald Trump will win the presidency. Count on it.
#1814 Re: The Garden » 2016 Presidential Election Thread » 530 weeks ago
How? Raise tariffs? That's Trump's plan. Does that make sense?
I guess it would if China wants to survive. America is a huge market for them, they are not going to tell them to just fuck off. I think you underestimate how powerful the USA really is.
My country has many steep tariffs, and in return we have small farmers, shop clerks, blue collar workers etc. making a good living wage. I assume most Americans wouldn't be against that.
#1815 Re: The Garden » 2016 Presidential Election Thread » 530 weeks ago
buzzsaw wrote:bigbri wrote:Also his plan to tax Chinese imports would do incredible damage to the economy and, again, average Americans, and businesses as well.
By possibly having manufacturing jobs coming back to the US? That's bad for the average American?
I don't believe what Trump SAYS, I believe what he DOES. Found these stories in about 30 seconds.
At Chicago hotel and elsewhere, Trump used foreign student labor he vows to ban
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nati … story.htmlTrump has profited from foreign labor he says is killing U.S. jobs
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics … story.htmlReport: Trump In-Laws Using Chinese EB-5 Visas to Build Tower
http://www.breitbart.com/big-government … sa-scheme/Trump The Hypocrite: Investing Overseas Fine For Him
http://www.forbes.com/sites/stuartander … 297cdc936b
Well, of course he is. Not possible to survive without it. Our company is forced to buy from China, but if we could buy locally we would of course do it. That's where government comes in. If you want to keep jobs in the country, they have to step in and take measures to make that happen. There's no way a western worker can compete with a sweat shop.
#1816 Re: Guns N' Roses » Tour Announcement Imminent? » 530 weeks ago
thankyou sir
Welcome to the forums 
#1817 Re: The Garden » 2016 Presidential Election Thread » 530 weeks ago
polluxlm wrote:My question is, do you trust him?
I do, more so than Hillary (the only other viable candidate for me) at least. And way more than I trust Trump or Cruz. Trump has repeatedly demonstrated that he's willing to say anything to get elected (and has changed positions on issues in a matter of days), which makes the search for his real policy positions akin to searching for a needle in a haystack. Obfuscating your real positions for the sake of electability that badly makes him very untrustworthy for me.
Cruz... well, anyone that religious should not be president if you care about personal liberties.
He'll say anything, but that's a given. Every candidate is like that.
What I like about Trump is that he is untainted by political ideology. Basically he's just a smart, privileged man who has worked (fairly) hard. He's not looking to implement any type of tyrannical state based on political religion, he just wants to do a good job as President. That's the vibe he's giving me. His qualities as a leader outweigh what has become empty rhetoric from the political establishment. Do I trust him? No, but I think he could easily be very capable for the job.
#1818 Re: The Garden » 2016 Presidential Election Thread » 530 weeks ago
Looking at it from a European perspective, I agree with you: I'd never vote for someone using Bernie's rhetoric on our side of the pond. I'd vote (and have voted) for parties that have very similar policies though.
Lol, I hear you on that. Over here he would be labeled an extremist, ironically.
However, in the context of the US I'm willing to give him a pass on that for a number of reasons:
- The two-party system forces him to be more outspoken to get the nomination for 'his' party, to set him apart from Hillary. In a parliamentary democracy with multiple viable parties you can (need to) be more nuanced in your positions.
- The American media feeds on polarization (more than most European media does). In order to get any amount of screen time, he needs to exaggerate and simplify his message more than a similar candidate would in Europe.
- In order to effectively bring his message across, get through to the average American citizen, and pierce through the "USA is #1 in everything" reality distortion field that some perpetuate, he needs to create a threat to the American Way of Life(tm), a boogeyman if you will, and big nameless corporations are an obvious and easy target, especially given that they really have contributed significantly to the wealth gap over the past few years/decades.
- There's no way in hell that the American people will allow anyone to turn their country into a communist authoritarian nation, the US constitution has many provision that provide protections against that and 4 years (or 8) is not nearly enough time to dismantle that entire framework. So even if you buy into the idea that Bernie is a real communist (he isn't), 4 years of having him in charge is likely to push the US more in the direction of a Western European-style Social Democracy (which would be a good thing), it'll never be enough to push the country over the edge into full blown Communism (a very very bad thing).In short: the US needs Bernie at this point in its history.
Well, we definitely agree on him suiting his rhetoric for his audience. Nor do I think the USA is in any danger of becoming a bona fide communist nation any time soon. 4 years of Bernie would be like 4 years of Obama. The same thing taken a little bit further. Corporations will still be buying elections, politicians, legislation. You say Europe as if that's a shining example at the moment. Yeah, we take better care of our weakest, but the same thing applies when it comes to business, elites and politics here. Even if Bernie turned out to be the unlikely hero, his successors would not be. Long term nothing would change for the better.
With Trump it doesn't matter. If he manages to win, with the entire weight of the establishment against him, it would set an important precedent. It shows people there is still hope for real democracy. Worst comes to worse and he's a terrible President, whatever limited damage he could do would be reversible. He's not starting a world war or anything like it, that's fantasy.
To me this election is shaping up like a litmus test for the system.
#1819 Re: The Garden » 2016 Presidential Election Thread » 530 weeks ago
Not a bad assessment, in my view.
It's not. My question is, do you trust him?
If I did, I would consider Bernie. He talks a similar game to Trump, and he's more intelligent about it. Yet I'm not feeling the Bern.
#1820 Re: The Garden » 2016 Presidential Election Thread » 530 weeks ago
Maybe. For me the "problem" with Sanders is not his stated policies. They mostly look sensible and intelligent, and I agree with many of them. What makes me reject him is the way he talks. When he goes on about "the big bad rich" I see that as coming from the mind of a communist. Then looking into his past and I find communist ties, the deal is off for me. Communism is what I fear the most, and if there's a chance a candidate is that, I'm not buying him however good a game he talks (and Bernie talks a good game).
If Bernie took the test I'm pretty confident he would land much more to the left. There's just no way he chooses some of the same options I did. I think "his results" as done by the site are projections on what they'd like him to be. Trump also suggests this as he is simply not that far right as in that chart. Trump has many socialist leanings.
As is he's supposedly more right wing than Hitler...
