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#2001 Re: Guns N' Roses » Just say no to corporate cash grabs » 536 weeks ago

Well, is BOB worthy? Not every GN'R song is a classic. Most, but not all.

Their solo careers show that Axl was critical to the creative process. Even bad ass riffs like Slither are marred by the uninspired mediocrity of Weiland, and he was the best singer they worked with.

#2002 Re: Guns N' Roses » Why the Guns 'N Roses Reunion Is a Mistake » 536 weeks ago

Whatever really. Just do something that puts him back in peoples living rooms. We love celebrities because we feel we know them. That's why those who know how to play the game can get so much good will.

#2003 Re: Guns N' Roses » Why the Guns 'N Roses Reunion Is a Mistake » 536 weeks ago

Wouldn't worry too much. The comment section isn't buying it. And to see largely positive comments on a GN'R article is a big step in the right direction.

Axl really should do some form of promotion though.

#2004 Re: The Garden » 2016 Presidential Election Thread » 536 weeks ago

James Lofton wrote:

It all makes me sick. The system is completely rigged. I'm reaching the point where if someone like Trump, Ventura, or a future unknown doesn't come in and implode the system as we know it, I'm willing to just let the TPTB tell us who our next prez is every four years and not waste any time pretending that there are real choices.

System has been rigged for years. Preloaded voting machines, double voting, fake votes, voters stricken off lists etc.

Remember a story about a candidate in California. Was leading huge, they called it. Then when the rest of the votes got counted the other guy had like 90% of them, doing a huge jump. Now that's mathematically impossible, and the theory is the early votes were rigged (electronic) and when the real physical votes got counted you saw how people had really voted.

#2005 Re: Guns N' Roses » GN'R Twitter Updates » 537 weeks ago

What I noticed is that while Slash's and Duff's measurements are sound, Axl's pic is a bit skewed. Guess they wanted him to look a bit slimmer than he actually does in comparison to the others. That, or bad Photoshopping.

These days we should be happy an artist is actually singing.

#2006 Re: The Sunset Strip » Jefferson Airplane founder Paul Kanter Dead at 74 » 537 weeks ago

I always liked how the band turned into this:

The early Kantner sound is completely gone, but Grace Slick can still carry it.

#2007 Re: Guns N' Roses » Big Surprise - We're almost all on the same side! » 537 weeks ago

Cornell isn't 25 anymore either. Mick Jagger doesn't have a very demanding style. Axl's problem is he made so many songs in his youth where he pushed his vocal powers to the limit. He could never do Coma today. Take that into consideration and he's not bad at all.

This guy however is impressive:

#2008 Re: Guns N' Roses » Just say no to corporate cash grabs » 537 weeks ago

johndivney wrote:

Speak for yourself. I know love Think About You more than I do SCoM. DTJ & PTU are close to my favourite tracks on UYI's. I'll always maintain PTU is the direction they should've explored. It's such an amazing piece.
Izzy, more than any of them, is tapped into the source. He's a classic, traditional songwriter. His songs could be folk songs, they could be pop songs, they could be psychedelic hard rock songs - Think About You could've been done by The Crystals or The Ronettes back in the day.

His solo stuff alone, if there never was a guns n roses, would still be an incredible body of work. Think how feted Americana guys like Howe gelb or Ryan Adams are these days, they've got nothing on Izzy. Westerberg's a comparable peer I guess.

I like Don't Damn Me better than almost all their hits. I'm also a huge sucker for Pretty Tied Up. Doesn't change the fact that most of the songs that made GN'R popular was written by Axl and Slash, along with Izzy on a decent chunk of them. But even on the songs he wrote there is often a massive Slash contribution to make the songs what they are. Solo in Patience, riffs and solo in YCBM, solo on Don't Cry. Together Axl and Slash wrote GN'Rs biggest hit in November Rain. The only GN'R song I still hear regularly on the radio. Those type of songs are what gave the added dimension that made them comparable to Led Zeppelin instead of AC/DC.

The songs Izzy wrote alone are great in their own right, yet for the most part reduced to cult classics enjoyed by certain segments of the fan base. PTU doesn't make the top 5 unless the person is a Izzy fanatic. Nor should it, because they have that many better songs that are deserving. 

In an equation of Axl, Slash and Izzy, who can you remove and still have a GN'R song? That's why he's overrated. Doesn't matter if he owns Ryan Adams. That's another type of music. One part of GN'Rs influences, but not defining of their sound, or necessarily feel.

I just connect more readily with his influences & songwriting than I do the more pompous self absorbed styling a of Axl & his influences. Slash I wish would play more acoustic stuff, get closer to his Rory Gallagher roots than playing the populist cartoony guy. Izzy's range & unabashed pilfering & homages from reggae to pop is like a gateway to the world I live in. He could've been a New York Doll. When I'm listening to the stuff Axl & Slash come from it's more like I'm visiting (except for Rory G & maybe ELO's Telephone Line - & Todd Rundgren is great too).

I actually care for Axl's influences the least. Not that they are bad, but Slash, Izzy and Duff have better ones. What I prefer about him is the talent. He can deliver a complete song. One that works both as a huge hit and as a deep cut. To me the other 4 haven't delivered a single song in their entire solo careers that is worthy of GN'R. Axl at least has a few.

Having said all that, you're right about the songs that defined the band.
But every historic band have at least one or two mega hits or identifiable classics & that's it - the Bryan Adams model again is something I like to use.
However, Guns never had any filler. It's what makes them so special.
Even if you take away the famous songs & are just left with Izzy's GnR songs you're still going to get some of the greatest rock songs ever, so I don't see how he's overrated. He's underrated if anything. He's brilliant, knows his stuff, a proper learned craftsman. You should appreciate him more tbh mate, his songs are magic & have the alchemy of the greats.
If I met him I'd give him a hug.

Re atoms nest:
Izzy isn't blazing a trail? What do you want him to be Taylor swift? Phil Collins? Gareth Brooks. He writes great rock n roll records, what more do you want from him?? He does his job & does it real well. Everything else is just wasted/wasteful energy.

The mega hits is what separates them from the pack. Often Izzy was a part of that, other times he was not. That's not lessening his contribution. He was a central part of the band and contributed a string of great songs. But calling him the heart and soul of GN'R is overrating him. Saying they can't write great songs without him is overrating him. He is not the brain of GN'R. He is like you say, a New York Doll. Low key. Brings good songs to the table and a groove, but he's not indispensable like the guitar of Slash and the voice of Axl Rose.

#2009 Re: Guns N' Roses » Just say no to corporate cash grabs » 537 weeks ago

Neemo wrote:

.in fact when I listened to the juju album when it first came out I literally threw it out my window of my car onto the highway...my teenage self wasn't ready for that type of music

Remember being massively let down. "How can a guy from GN'R play such soft music?" was my reaction. He is still the best song writer of the four though.

I actually think none of them are particularly good artists without Axl. Musicians sure, but not artists. His "solo album" is the only one where I want to listen to all the songs more than once. Shows me the number one reason GN'R got big was because of him.

That being said, he needed the talent of the whole band to make it as big as they did. I like CD, but I see it doesn't have the organic quality of the early albums. Not even UYI has that. The original band was a perfect storm.

#2010 Re: Guns N' Roses » Just say no to corporate cash grabs » 537 weeks ago

Izzy's role has been overrated. He's one of the central song writers, not the central song writer. Most of GN'Rs big guns were either written without him or in a supportive role. Jungle, RQ, NR, Civil War, Coma and Estranged are all without Izzy. SCOM is mainly Slash and Axl. PC is Duff, Slash and Axl.

Patience, YCBM and Don't Cry are Izzy's main contributions to the discography. Songs like Dust N Bones, Pretty Tied Up and Double Talking Jive are the songs with Izzy all over them, and while great they aren't the songs that defined the band.

Axl's vocals and arrangements and Slash' guitar are the foundation. The common thread in all their greatest hits. Even those written by Izzy.

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