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#221 Re: The Garden » Current Events Thread » 175 weeks ago

misterID wrote:

Schumer is going to push another bill to “ratify Roe” which allows abortion all the way up to birth. When he tried this a few weeks ago he couldn’t even get 50 Democrats on board. Even people who support Row are against that. Like, all of Europe has stricter abortion laws than Alabama and Mississippi.


This is what is so frustrating. We have no idea what the final opinion in Jackson will be or what restrictions it will allow. But let’s assume Alito’s 1st draft opinion is the final product - Roe’s conclusion that abortion is an inherent right granted through privacy requirements from the 4th, 5th and 14th amendments is no longer true. State’s can regulate and ban abortion in the majority of situations. It’s important to note that we have no idea and won’t know from Jackson where federal bodily autonomy ends. Someone will sue in a restrictive state for the right to abort in clear instances of danger to the mother. And SCOTUS will have to define when abortion due to physical danger to the mother ends.

Congress and Biden have a real opportunity to score a win here that will help real people and accomplish the ends they profess to desire. I bet they could pass a federal law ensuring the right to abortion up to 15 weeks. A standard set in most of the western world. You have moderate republicans in the senate who want to create some kind of protection. But no. Rather than legislate or govern, they go full wacko and want to legislate infanticide. And morons who don’t know how to have an independent thought suddenly support drilling holes into the brains of crowning babies because they’re told that’s the new definition of support for abortion rights. Ignore the incredibly rare medical instances where such an act would ever be considered, who is in favor of healthy babies and their healthy mothers consenting to murder as the child is birthed?  The people who answer in the affirmative are the nut jobs hanging outside Kavanaugh’s house ready to perform a lynching. And the media portrays these people and this opinion as if it’s rationale or remotely popular. Imagine if they represented people who want to machine gun illegals crossing the border with the same empathy and credibility as they do supporters of the democrat’s current legislation.

They know it has no chance of passing, and probably don’t want to support abortion at 40 weeks. But why accomplish something that can unify people when you can continue to fund raise and try to salvage your midterm slaughter by making Jackson out to be the greatest threat to our democracy since the maintaining of the filibuster and requiring voter ID before that. The lemmings who follow them off the cliff are even more baffling.

#222 Re: The Garden » Current Events Thread » 175 weeks ago

misterID wrote:

But yesh, being a caregiver is emotionally and psychologically hard.

That’s where I concluded I’d struggle. If I thought I’d live forever, that’s one thing. With trisomy21, you don’t know how independent the child will be capable of being. And even at the least limited, there’s concern.

A friend of mine’s mom took in a guy named Dustin as a favor after Dustin’s mom passed. Dustin was an adult, but mentally handicapped. Essentially a perpetual 8 year old intellectually. She was close friends with Dustin’s mom, and knew Dustin all his life. They thought they could make it work, but the challenge was too much and now Dustin lives in a home. He has no blood family to care for him, and gets to spend a few days with my friend’s mom around holidays.

I’ve never had a conversation with Dustin on his happiness, but it’s not a situation I’d ever want to put my child or their siblings in should my wife and/or I suffer and early demise. And that’s assuming best case scenario where true independence is possible. A group home, all alone isn’t a situation I could feel comfortable subjecting my child to in his 40s or 50s.

#223 Re: The Garden » Current Events Thread » 176 weeks ago

misterID wrote:

Should Down syndrome babies be aborted for having Down syndrome?

My wife and I have both agreed if our future child was diagnosed with down syndrome we'd abort it.  I know Ohio passed a law that banned abortion solely due to down syndrome.  I disagree with that.  I respect the right of others to choose, and a decision like that isn't one to be made lightly.  At the end of the day, if abortion is legal, it's legal.  So long as those who choose to have it adhere to the requirements of applicable law, that should be the end of discussion.  Others will probably have a strong opinion totally different than mine, but privacy was at the root of Roe and I think it's very important to maintain it. 

With Collins and Murkowski calling for the Senate to affirm Roe, I hope they can find 8 more GOP Senators.  I just hope the DNC doesn't go full bore and try to legalize abortion up to 40 weeks at the whim of the mother as VA and NY did.  No way that law ever passes.  Manchin has already confirmed he won't support removing the filibuster to codify Roe into federal law.

#224 Re: The Garden » Current Events Thread » 176 weeks ago

mitchejw wrote:

Forcing these unwanted babies will create more problems. In a society that’s hooray for me and fuck you, these kids won’t have a chance.

At least they’ll fill up juvenile halls and jails though.

I'm a firm believer that Roe was a primary cause of the dramatic downturn in violence we experienced in the early 90s.  Hundreds of thousands if not millions of unwanted children who never were forced to exist with mothers who couldn't care/didn't want them, and turned to the streets to survive. 

I would not be surprised at all if we didn't see a big crime spike in 2040 as a direct result of Roe being overturned and the 20 or so states that will immediately act to ban all abortions.

#225 Re: The Garden » Current Events Thread » 176 weeks ago

misterID wrote:

If that’s the argument for life you’ve just lost in court.

Christ told his followers to be the best slaves they could be, so I guess we have to abolish the 13th amendment now cause some illiterate desert nomads 6k years ago had a clever story to tell.  Anyone have 30 pieces of silver I can borrow?  I'm going to go rape some A lister and pay her father to make her my 2nd wife.

Deuteronomy 22:29

#226 Re: The Garden » Current Events Thread » 176 weeks ago

misterID wrote:

A real court case would be: prove life begins at conception. How can a state legally prevent a medical procedure? How forcing someone to travel across state lines for a medical procedure is not a federal issue, and not grounds for federal protections? How is an abortion not a civil liberties issue — see the first question.

As much shit as *Trump’s judges get, they are constitutionalists. Bush’s judges were Christian conservatives. Alito is a Bush Judge… though Roberts is proving to be a constitutional justice.

Isn't that ambiguity the challenge?  I'm sure you and I agree that abortion at 40 weeks on a healthy child and mother would be murder, but there are people who believe that the "fetus" is not protected until it exits the woman.  Common law defined life as starting when the baby can be felt, which generally aligns with 13 weeks or so.  Until Roe was decided, every state in the country either banned abortion outright or had severe limitations on it.  I don't think you can define when a fetus becomes a human life, or if you can, it's entirely based on your own opinion and conjecture.  And if no fetus is a human life, people convicted of killing pregnant women and their children need to have their sentences adjusted.

We know what a man or a woman is, but our newest justice felt that was a difficult idea to articulate.  If she can't determine what a woman is, how can she be expected to determine the moment life starts?

If you read Alito's opinion, his argument is that abortion was never a protected right from the constitution, and cites 800 years of common law and each state in the union's law up until the 14th amendment and at the time Roe was decided.  He also goes to great lengths to negate any claims that this ruling impacts any other notion other than abortion, as both Roe and Casey already identity the unique circumstance of their decisions in determining when potential human life can be extinguished.  This is a wholly unique subcategory of law separate from the right of consenting adults to fornicate or marry whom they choose. 

I support abortion, but I'm looking for the pundits who have actually read Alito's opinion and can counter the arguments he made there.  It's a tough job to do, and one I have yet to find in the numerous articles I've read on the topic this morning.

#227 Re: The Garden » Current Events Thread » 176 weeks ago

I'm always lurking.  Just don't feel the need to increase my post count or echo what others have already said.

#228 Re: The Garden » Current Events Thread » 176 weeks ago

misterID wrote:

Roe has nothing to do with religion. It’s about state vs federal powers.

I'd argue it's not even that simple.  It's about the Court creating a right in opposition to 600 years of English common law and nearly 200 years of American law to create a right that was immediately re-worked 20 years later in Casey and still is without legal precedent.  Why is viability the line in the sand, where does that premise come from, and what statute exists to define viability. 

I feel horrible for the teenagers and women in Southern states that will soon be legally denied all access to abortion.  There is no doubt that at least 13 states will ban all abortion the moment this decision is made public.  But I also hold accountable the progressive states that all but legalized infanticide in the past couple years in their desire to move the bar ever leftward. 

I hope congress can codify abortion into law as nearly every western nation has without relying on the concept of viability or a right to abortion inferred from a right to privacy.  But I don't think that's going to happen anytime soon.  I don't think it will have much of an impact on the midterms.  The left has been predicting this outcome for decades, and the aftermath won't align with their doom and gloom.  Mississippi is going to be Mississippi and New York is going to be New York.  With recession on the horizon and inflation at record numbers, convincing the public that abortions after 15 weeks are necessary for a free society and the biggest issue of our time is going to be a hard sell.  Especially when most of Europe and the world is already aligned with the outcome of Alito's decision assuming it is in fact real and 4 other justices sign on.

#229 Re: The Garden » Current Events Thread » 176 weeks ago

I just finished the 68 pages of Alito's opinion.  I might read the appendix later.  I fully support abortion, but those aghast at Alito's ruling are going to struggle to answer and address the problems Alito poses.  Highly recommend reading his argument before predicting doom and gloom or calling him a legal hack.

https://www.politico.com/f/?id=00000180 … 4f98520000

#230 Re: Guns N' Roses » GN’R Cover Bands » 182 weeks ago

Smoking Guns wrote:

If it is the same band I have seen the GNR cover band called Appetite for Destruction maybe 10 times. As far back as maybe 2008 or so. THE BEST OF ALL TIME. The Axl was so damn good and even looked like him. He killed it. Wonder if the same band. These guys were INSANE

GNRtribute.com


Let me know if these are the same guys. Their Duff was an extra 100 lbs, but their Axl was better than the one I’ve seen on stage the past few years.

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