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#3671 Re: The Garden » US Politics Thread » 501 weeks ago

buzzsaw wrote:

You think because you stir the pot you're not responsible. Nope. Doesn't work that way. Grown ups don't have conversations like that and the only way to stop you is to stoop to your level.


Dude, it's not your job to change anyone's opinion.  I as much as anyone can appreciate how passionate we all can be on issues we care about.  If someone wants to believe Trump is a racist because he wants to enforce the border, there's nothing you can say to sway them.  Just as you can't sway someone who thinks Clinton should have been indicted for her email use.  To me, the 1st Amendment is about as crystal clear as any law or principle we hold to.  But there's still people out there who believe unpopular thoughts should be punished. 

At the end of the day, some people aren't interested in debating their opinion.  Just try to get someone to explain why they believe in a higher power and not rely on faith.  Faith is a powerful thing and isn't limited to religion. How many people have an opinion on Climate Change?  How many people that have an opinion are qualified to hold the opinion they have?  How many read the actual research and understand it?  Those that aren't trained in science nor have read the report are relying on faith to justify their opinion, whether they realize it or not.

Some people posting their comments on this election aren't even US Citizens, so their opinions don't even factor into the outcome.  No more than my comments mattered on Brexit.  In a month none of this will even have mattered and people will return to their corners to defend or excuses the faults of their surrogate.

#3672 Re: The Garden » US Politics Thread » 501 weeks ago

Yea, I didn't find Romney's 47% comment particularly insulting because it's true, but this country has a problem being told the truth on most things (I mean, it's PC to believe men and women can change their sex, despite every aspect of biology saying this is pure fantasy).  Hillary couldn't fill a McDonald's for a rally, so it really comes down to does Trump scare enough people to show up and vote against him.

#3673 Re: The Garden » 2016 Presidential Election Thread » 502 weeks ago

bigbri wrote:
Smoking Guns wrote:
bigbri wrote:

There are 1.2M Cuban Americans in Florida. A good number of them are not happy with Donald Trump today. He's got a problem.

Hilary violated many state department rules/laws/ethics... And got NOTHING. Same will happen here, especially since it is 20 years ago.

I think there are Cuban Americans who won't support him because of this. Florida's Cuban population usually supports GOP. This year it's closer. Turning off that bloc in Florida is not gonna help him in that close state.


By that logic they're going to hate Hillary because Obama has opened diplomatic ties with Cuba.  Either they hate their home country and anything that keeps it afloat or they don't. 

I'm really at the point of not caring.  The world is going to shit as progressives open our borders to 3rd world peasants with no interest in adapting to western customs and norms.  We have the most corrupt candidate in US history running for President and a fucking blow hard with the temperament of a Chihuahua.  We spend all of our time pointing out how bad the other candidate is rather than explain why we support our candidate of choice.  All but one Senator overrode the 9/11 veto which is universally retarded and will allow any moronic judge and jury to award damages against a sovereign country with no thought to the damage to international relations.  This says nothing to the flood gates of lawsuits filed by equally retarded foreign judges and juries against the US.  This is one issue I strongly agree with Obama on, and our Senate ignored reality to score points at home.   

At least I'm well armed and know how to survive on my own if things go to shit.  All the city folks who rely on whole foods are gonna be fucked though.

#3675 Re: The Garden » 2016 Presidential Election Thread » 502 weeks ago

Cramer wrote:
Randall Flagg wrote:
Cramer wrote:

Trump is currently being sued by CHILDREN for not being paid. Trump's campaign staff just recently quit for not being paid.  This is what he does, not pay people who work for him.

His hotel here in Vegas pay their workers 3 dollars an hour less than all the others around the Strip, recently settled another suit for non payment and unfair labor practices. The guy is a sleaze...I mean "job creator."


Eh, but he didn't giggle on camera after he got a child rapist off.  But whatever you need to tell yourself Clinton has any moral superiority to Trump.

And cut the word play man.  The "Children" were dancers whose father thought Trump was his ticket to stardom.  No contract was signed, they didn't get the publicity they wanted at a rally, so dad's using this to get publicity.  But saying that kind of undercuts your argument.  Clinton pays her female staffers less than her male ones.  Where's your wage gap outrage there?

Consistency folks.  Without it, you come across as a cheer leader.

I'm disappointed in how disingenuous and dishonest you are. Do you sincerely believe Clinton was laughing over that or the aspects of the case itself? Seriously? Get real.

They didn't pay the Dance Troupe as promised...end of story. If he had always paid his employees and subs on time, then perhaps I'd think differently, but he clearly has a history of screwing people over. In this case he is fine with not paying a childrens dance group.

Your claim that she pays less is rated false by political fact checks. Cherry picked data from right wing hacks as usual.

Between the lies and conspiracy theories now....sad!

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter … -top-wome/

Clinton's top female staffers at her Foundation make 70 cents on the dollar to her male staff.  I don't care because I know the wage gap is a myth. When comparing the same job with the same experience, the gap disappears.   I'm only saying that if Clinton is going to quote the wage gap as a problem, she has to answer for her Foundation staff.  You guys are only talking about her Senate staff, which to quote SLC, is "disingenuous".  I have no doubt Clinton is paying her staff based on what they're worth, not based on their sex.

But if you want to talk about context, how about we apply that consistency to Trump.  Look at the full clip where he allegedly said Megyn Kelly was on the rag.  He used the exact same comments about blood coming out of a man, but the sound bytes excluded that.  When he "made fun of the cripple" he used the same hand movements to describe an able bodied person in the same speech.  But again, that was left out of the sound bytes. 

Trump says what everyone else says in the locker room or behind closed doors.  The same shit that was said in the hacked DNC emails.  I just refuse to play the PC game and pretend that Trump is somehow awful just because he doesn't maintain the facade of political correctness.  Did Clinton ever do Stern?  No, she didn't because she'd be a lousy interview and couldn't handle the unscripted nature of the show.  Some women are ugly as dogs.  Same as men.  Walking up to someone uninvited and calling them ugly is rude and childish.  Commenting on beauty when talking about a contestant in a beauty pageant doesn't strike me as unreasonable.  How many women did Bill Clinton stick his dick in while married?  Is that somehow morally superior to Trump calling Rosie O'Donnell a "fat pig?"

Trump met with several world leaders and didn't call them ugly or stupid.  I fail to see how "drawing a red line" and then backing down is any less damaging to the image of the office than a brash, successful business man who turned 1 million into billions and has a perfect 10 wife.  That's the American dream.  How many of us could take $1 and turn it into $100?

#3676 Re: The Garden » 2016 Presidential Election Thread » 502 weeks ago

Cramer wrote:
slashsfro wrote:

Yup and he'd hire a lawyer when those workers try to get those unpaid wages too.  And that would force those workers to hire a lawyer just to get those wages back.

You guys gotta stop reading Breibart or whatever it is that you get this info from because some of it is just plain false.

Trump is currently being sued by CHILDREN for not being paid. Trump's campaign staff just recently quit for not being paid.  This is what he does, not pay people who work for him.

His hotel here in Vegas pay their workers 3 dollars an hour less than all the others around the Strip, recently settled another suit for non payment and unfair labor practices. The guy is a sleaze...I mean "job creator."


Eh, but he didn't giggle on camera after he got a child rapist off.  But whatever you need to tell yourself Clinton has any moral superiority to Trump.

And cut the word play man.  The "Children" were dancers whose father thought Trump was his ticket to stardom.  No contract was signed, they didn't get the publicity they wanted at a rally, so dad's using this to get publicity.  But saying that kind of undercuts your argument.  Clinton pays her female staffers less than her male ones.  Where's your wage gap outrage there?

Consistency folks.  Without it, you come across as a cheer leader.

#3677 Re: The Garden » 2016 Presidential Election Thread » 502 weeks ago

Half the country doesn't pay federal taxes, and yet they receive the most from the government. Hillary didn't offer a single plan. She offered some ideas, but referring to her own people as fact checkers doesn't pass the test. She can't do shit without congress. They're not going to get the house and unless something dramatic happens, they're not getting the senate either.

Trump lost because he took the bait and rambled. But Trump also had to respond to the hard questions. What tough question was geared solely for Clinton?  If you watched that debate and thought it was fair moderation, you probably think North Korea has a great judicial system.

Stop and Frisk wasn't declared unconstitutional. Some federal judge ruled it so and her ruling was stayed and she was removed from the case due to bias. Only SCOTUS makes something unconstitutional. Or do you all accept Obama violated the constitution with his executive orders cause one judge in the South said so (never mind the appeallate court agreeing, it was 4-4 at SCOTUS so no precedent is set)?

You can pat yourselves on the back, but people watching recognized this and they aren't so quick to hand waive all of Clinton's transgressions.  I think Trump lost, but I saw a hundred polls today saying he won or it was a tie.

And don't forget, Obama bombed bad in the first 2012 debate and still won. Trump's going to come at her hard in the next debate and her giggling or referring to her website isn't going to win anyone over.

#3678 Re: The Garden » 2016 Presidential Election Thread » 502 weeks ago

Trump lost the debate.  There's no amount of spin that can change that.  I'm not saying Clinton did incredibly well or she won anyone over, but Trump came across more as a Palin than as a McCain.  Will be interesting to see what impact this has on the polls.  Trump lost because he didn't offer anything of substance.  Clinton is a policy guru, so he needs to have something more substantial.   It doesn't mean Clinton offered more substance, in fact I read an article that commented on how Clinton didn't offer much, but rather said something and let Trump make himself look like a fool.

But if Trump thinks he can just get on stage and ramble without offering a vision or plan that consists of more than "Making America Great", Clinton's numbers are gonna jump.

#3679 Re: The Garden » 2016 Presidential Election Thread » 503 weeks ago

bigbri wrote:
Randall Flagg wrote:

http://www.suffolk.edu/documents/SUPRC/ … ginals.pdf

A new Florida poll has Trump in the lead.  Let's all jump to conclusions because one poll put Trump in the lead.

Two things I noticed that made me question the polls results.  The majority of those polled voted for Romney in 2012 - Florida went to Obama, so I question their sample.  And nearly half said they had someone who served in the military in their household.  Something like 7-8% of the country has worn the uniform.

Flagg, did you see the NYT story about polling. It's interesting. They gave their own raw data to 4 pollsters and got, of course, four different results.

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016 … about.html

Interesting how it works. I learned some things that will make me look at poll results with a little more scepticism.


I didn't. Thanks for sharing. The only way to have an idea is to look at the results of several polls taken over the same time.

#3680 Re: The Garden » 2016 Presidential Election Thread » 503 weeks ago

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/09/h … fbi-228607

If I'm reading this right and Obama knowingly sent emails to Clinton's server under a fake name to by pass record keeping laws, this could be a bombshell.  I guess we'll see what happens, but if true could be a coverup from the top.

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