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#4121 Re: Guns N' Roses » Chinese GNR fan..lookin for help » 920 weeks ago
Someone should totally write a bullshit dialogue full of racial tirades, anti-communist rants and suggestive material.
#4122 Re: The Garden » Second school massacre in Finland - within a year » 920 weeks ago
I'm always sad to hear when a tragedy like this strikes. I just hope the people in Finland don't have an emotional, reactionary response and try to ban private ownership of firearms because one indiviudal chose to break the law.
I hope those affected by this are okay.
#4123 Re: The Garden » Wisconsin liberals trying to rig election » 920 weeks ago
It's always the democrats committing voter fraud. People like to bitch about Ohio in 2004 and claim fraud took place there. But the only fraud in Ohio in 2004 occured in Cleveland when two democratic poll workers were changing ballots from Bush to Kerry.
They call Republicans fear mongerers, but it's the Democrats who thrive off of fear and intimidation by running on platforms like global warming, gun-control, social security and abortion (claiming women would die in back allys) just to name a few.
No one is innocent in this, but I see nothing wrong with policies that require residents to have a state issued ID to validate that they are indeed whom they claim to be and are capable to vote. Democrats oppose such legislation because a substantial portion of their voter base is unable to show proof of identity when voting which of course is a huge concern for voter fraud. Obviously some people in that category are unable to legally vote for numerous reasons, so Democrats oppose legislation requiring stricter identification criteria because they thrive off of voter fraud. Then again, when they can't win outright, they follow the law to a T and they just get the opposing guy kicked off the ballot as Obama did.
#4124 Re: The Garden » Bush Asks Congress for $700 Billion Bailout » 920 weeks ago
Saikin wrote:National health care takes away freedom because all of a sudden you don't have a choice what hospital you want, or whether you want to pay a certain premium or not. You have no choice. That to me, is a freedom that has been taken away.
See, that just shows how uninformed you are about this. We can freely choose our doctors, which hospital we go to, which perks we want during our treatment, choice of different sorts of medication, plastic surgery, ... the whole shebang.
Obviously, we need to pay for all those "nice to haves" ourselves, and we can get private insurance on top of the national health care system to pay for them. But that's something you have to decide for yourself. What's important to know is that if you choose not to pay for additional insurance, and you choose to not take private insurance, you will be able to get help for virtually no cost.
Yes, I do pay around 50% of my monthly wage in taxes (and the average Belgian still earns more than the average American), but only a small part of that goes to national health care. The rest goes to unemployment funds, retirements funds, infrastructure, ...
Now, I don't agree with a lot of those government organized insurances. I strongly believe one shouldn't be rewarded for prolonged unemployment, retirement is not something accidental so you can save up for that yourself, I don't feel I have to pay for that. (But a big part of the population does, so who am I to say it's wrong - that's democracy for ya).
If you compare that 50% to the USA's maximum of 35%, where you reap next to none of these benefits, you seem to be royally screwed. Maybe you need to reorganize the way current taxes are spent and pay national health care from the income you already have?
The point remains that one is forced to partake in a plan that is not advantageous to most people. Everyone pays for health care so that the have nots can get it too. This results in lower quality of care and availability. I know a thing or two about social medicine, I am in the Army afterall and our medical system epitomizes social medicine. The only caveat is that the Army excludes extremely unhealthy people from joining and there are no unemployed, so it is a little bit better than what would be available to the general public.
It ultimately comes down to this, what gives someone the right to steal from me to provide for those unable or unwilling to provide for themselves. I understand that this system can be created under a democratic system, but that tyranny of the majority and nothing more. I demand that if my hard earned money is going to provide you with health care, that I have a say in how you live your life. I'll be damned if we have a system where everyone gets health care and the numerous other luxuries you stated in that UN document (by the way you still haven't answered how they derivied that right or where they got the authority to claim it as such) that requires no effort of the indivdual. People should not be rewarded for making poor decsions and adapting to survive in our society. If you choose to work a job that pasy 8$ an hour and have 4 kids, it's not my problem that your quality of life sucks. Now I can make personal, charitable donations (and I do) to help these people, but that is my choice and my decision on how I use my money. Forcing me to do something for the ideals of another is bullshit, especially when a portion of those people imposing those beliefs are the people that will benefit from them.
#4125 Re: The Garden » Bush Asks Congress for $700 Billion Bailout » 920 weeks ago
A. I didn't realize your article supercedes numerous studies... however if so, then
B. The judge threw out the fact that 3,000 people DIE annually from second hand smoke, he NEVER threw out the notion that second hand smoke may cause cancer or negative health side effects. Unless there's more in the article than what it shows (the full article link doesn't work anymore), by your logic: Because a judge threw out studies which showed 3,000 people die from cancer caused by second hand smoke, then therefore secondhand smoke doesn't cause cancer whatsoever. Pretzel logic. Plus your article states employees make a choice to work for the company, well no ones forcing smokers to goto bars, they make that choice, stay home if you want to smoke.
Anyway, I wasn't even for it when they passed it here. I thought it was kinda useless, however ever since it went into effect, I like it alot. 100% better, and the majority of residents do as well, so our local government worked for us. Don't knock it till you rock it is all I'm sayin.
Here is the article:
The whole issue of the danger behind passive smoking came in 1993 when the federal EPA (warning signs should immediately begin flashing) issued its "Respiratory Health Effects of Passive Smoking: Lung Cancer and Other Disorders." The study claimed that 3,000 people die annually due to second-hand smoke. In 1998, Judge Osteen of the U.S. District Court for the Middle District of North Carolina ruled, "The EPA's procedural failure constitutes a violation of the law" and "... EPA cherry picked its data..." Yeah, you read correctly, the court threw out the study saying it was biased and invalid.
Granted, organizations such as the American Lung Association, American Cancer Society, American Heart Association and U.S. Surgeon General all state that second-hand smoke is a killer. However, all of these organizations cite (yep, you guessed right) the flawed EPA study that was thrown out in a U.S. District Court. Furthermore, these organizations inflate the number of deaths each year from 3,000 to 50,000.
Do they cite scientific data to support this claim? Absolutely not, they simply issue a projection based on mortality rates from heart disease and other causes of death. In other words, if you bite the big one after having lived with a smoker, they simply chalk you up into their fabricated statistic.
But for argument's sake, let's use the EPA statistic and concede that 3,000 people die each year from lung cancer due to second-hand smoke. The EPA claims that you are 25 percent more likely to develop lung cancer if exposed to second-hand smoke. That sounds like quite an increase, but a normal person without exposure to passive smoke runs a 1:100,000 chance of developing lung cancer. According to the EPA, the chance increases to 1:80,000 if exposed to passive smoke. In other words, 10 people out of 1,000,000 will develop lung cancer without exposure and 12.5 out of 1,000,000 will develop lung cancer with exposure to second-hand smoke. This is statistically insignificant. So only 2.5 people per million develop lung cancer due to second-hand smoke, and that's if you buy into the EPA's flawed study.
We get it; some of you don't like second-hand smoke. If you don't like second-hand smoke, persuade a bar uptown to ban smoking and you can patronize that establishment. But don't stand here and tell me you're on some crusade to defend the health of those who work in these places, as well as your own, when you don't have a clue as to what you're ranting about. Those employees make a choice to work in an environment where smoking is permissible. Last time I checked, I wasn't stepping over dead bodies every time I walked into a restaurant or bar that allowed smoking, and I'm sure you haven't either.
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My point is that no scientific study as of 2006 ( I havent looked since then) showed second hand smoke as statistically dangerous. When only 2.5 people out of a million get lung cancer from 2nd hand smoke, we have to ask ourselves do those two individuals outweigh the freedom of the other million, especially when no one is forced to breathe second hand smoke.
They instituted the same law in Ohio and Washington, so I'm well aware of what it's like. The point remains that dictating to a property owner what legal substance he can or can not allow on his premises is wrong. What next, are we going to allow San Fransico to ban red-meat from restraunts because red-meat can cause cancer and the yahoos out there find eating meat barbaric? Second hand smoke is an annoyance, not a threat. The bans amount to people banning stufff that annoys them under the mask of psuedo science and outright bullshit.
#4126 Re: The Garden » Bush Asks Congress for $700 Billion Bailout » 920 weeks ago
ahhh yes, the reliable, non-biased source of tobacco.org.. How did I not think to check there for reliable information. Anyway, I'll revise my post:
Randall Flagg wrote:What if I didn't like a certain minority or or people of a certain persuasion. Could I just outlaw them from my business? Could I pass a law that banned all "undesireables" from a public establishment?
Minorities don't release toxic fumes & odors, second hand smoke does.
That wasn't your argument though. You said you didn't like 2nd hand smoke, so you were glad it was banned. I wrote that article, not tobacco.org. They were just one of many places that picked up my article and was the first I saw when I googled it. Don't let the facts get in the way though.
#4127 Re: The Garden » Bush Asks Congress for $700 Billion Bailout » 920 weeks ago
ahh, the old second hand smoke causes cancer routine. Here is an article I wrote on this in college that got picked up by alot of sources:
Simply put, second hand smoke causing cancer is bullshit and there is little to no science suggesting it does.
#4128 Re: The Garden » Bush Asks Congress for $700 Billion Bailout » 920 weeks ago
The reasons they are regulated is the same reason the FDA exists. To ensure that the services advertised are indeed the services provided. I can't advertise or allow you to assume that by eating in my restraunt that the food is quality and sanitary while I secretly keep rats in the back. These licenses also exist to make sure the merchant is compliant with state and federal laws.
I understand you like going to any establishment you choose and not being surrounded by smoke, but that doesn't make it right and not a violation of the property of others.
What if I didn't like a certain minority or or people of a certain persuasion. Could I just outlaw them from my business? Could I pass a law that banned all "undesireables" from a public establishment?
#4129 Re: The Garden » Bush Asks Congress for $700 Billion Bailout » 920 weeks ago
Randall Flagg wrote:Such policies are already going into affect by banning smoking and trans fat in foods.
This is one of the best laws my local government has ever imposed. I can't goto bars in the suburbs anymore, can't stand the smoke. Oddly enough, it didn't bother me as much before they passed the bill, but now that most places I visit can't allow smoking I'm 110% for it.
Randall Flagg wrote:Freedom means the ability to make choices on your own without permission from others.
Kinda like abortion.
Such bans are a violation of property owners rights. Just as I can't tell you what to permit and deny in your home, you shouldn't be able to tell me what I can allow or deny in my privately owned business. Tom's bar isn't a place you need to go or have a right to enjoy. If Tom wants to cater to smokers as his clientele, he should be able to. No one is forcing you to enter that establishment. Just because you don't like something doesn't give you the authority to outlaw it. I don't like rap music and find it offensive, should I be able to pass a law that bans rap from public businesses?
And on the abortion issue, that itself begs many questions. And to debate that would require many many hours of debate and the assumption you're read up on the numerous court cases that have dealt with it. I am pro-choice or better put, I support the abortion of unwanted children that would grow-up in poor homes and serve as a burden to society. But their is a fundamental problem with abortion that no one has been able to answer. All Americans have a right to life as defined by our laws. The question remains, when does one become a human being and thus an American protected by those laws. Or better articulated, when does a fetus become a baby. Any answer your provide me will be arbitray, so the only valid answer is really conception. You could of course go the opposite route and say when it's capable of thought and feeling, but that would mean 3-4 months after it is born and I don't know if your or the public would want to endorse infanticide. I agree that I have problems coming to my conclusion on this subject. But in the original Roe v. Wade, the standard for life was when the baby could survive outside the womb. With the increase in technology, that could soon be as soon as conception occurs.
#4130 Re: The Garden » Bush Asks Congress for $700 Billion Bailout » 920 weeks ago
Randall Flagg wrote:But since Bush was able to go to war with the votes and funding of the congress, your argument falls flat. I could even go a step further and blame this whole mess on Clinton for not dealing with Bin Laden in the 90s.
.If the "Healthcare Bill" gets approved by Congress your arguement falls flat.
And Rumsfeld & his cronies went to Clinton in '97 to goto war in Iraq. Clinton refused. Once 9/11 happened, they had their opportunity. Look it up, this regime run by Neocons who could give a fuck less about you & me. They just like to market it that way with things like "Fiscal Conservative' "Strong on Terror" and "Pro-Life".
And typical Republican, trying to pass the blame. Take ownership in your own party. He's nearly causing another Great Depression.
There is a fundamental difference between providing health care as a service and stating it as an unrealized right. If the US did pass legislation that created universal health care, I would have to abide by that system even if I didn't want it or my represenative voted against it.
I'm not going to get into an argument about the war. I was making a point that followed your logic; I didn't say I held that point as my own.
And please, I'm anything but a typical Republican.
