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#461 Re: The Garden » Current Events Thread » 275 weeks ago
misterID wrote:I would disagree in this sense, the country is not the country portrayed in the media. And social media isn't representative of the country. Honestly, I would say 98% of the people I come across and interact with on a daily basis treats everyone respectfully, no matter race, etc. I think politics makes people stupid, and the media is fake, partisan and exploitative.
When reading some of the insanity... whether it's Reddit, Twitter, whatever....I sometimes wonder how much of it is real people doing this.
I know a certain percentage of Twitter accounts are bots and everyone brushes it aside but I think something more insidious is going on....
People are starting to spot literal fake people with fake followers having conversations amongst themselves.
Pictures from something like....
https://thispersondoesnotexist.com/
How widespread is that?
Some sort of dystopic feedback loop that riles up all the plebs while also reacting to the riled up plebs.
One thing that would help things immensely is if mainstream news outlets would stop posting or talking about what's going on at these platforms.
I've seen examples where they quote someone for a story yet go to that Twitter page and it's just some random person with a handful of followers.
Another thing to do is make these platforms stop manipulating the trending items of the day. If you can't stop it, have a warning posted at the top of what's trending telling people this is all being manipulated for propaganda purposes and to proceed accordingly.
Either way.... this shit is causing real damage.
Your post did remind me of the Bill Hicks joke where he's watching the news and they're reporting all this horrifying shit...he looks out the window.....crickets chirp.
Yeah people misuse the word bot. A bot account on a site like Twitter is a dumb thing that randomly follows people and tweets, comments and messages with spam content. You see the ones on this forum creating those spam threads.
Then there are the entities, groups and organisations creating accounts to rile people up. See the troll factory: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/18/worl … ctory.html
That's what Russia have been up to but this is used by groups in the West too. This type of information warefare to sew division, is no doubt used by every countries alphabet agencies.
Then you have the likes of Cambridge Analytica, where it has been documented in Chris Witty's book that they were creating groups on facebook for certain topics and even posting the content into the groups themselves under the disguise of their accounts just being average joes.
Behind these fake accounts are multiple people, consultancies, agencies, terrror groups etc. All of them using these platforms to create fake personas and stoke division - down every side of every discussion. They do this for long enough and real people get riled up and what those real people are now saying and reacting to then feeds into the actual news agenda.
The only thing that can hope to curb this is lawmakers introducing some form of legislation to regulate these social media platforms - but that in itself is messy ground, because you get into all sorts of arguments about interfering with free speech etc.
It's a dumpster fire.
#462 Re: The Garden » Current Events Thread » 277 weeks ago
It's easy to get an ID, they just need to make sure everyone who wants one gets one. Community organizers would be good at this
Are the two IDs typically used in the US passport and driver's license? One simple solution to this that is probably easy to do is just make applying for and receiving a passport free.
Like you say, if they want to check IDs they need to just make sure it's easy for everyone to get one. And easy includes cost but also the process.
#463 Re: The Garden » Current Events Thread » 277 weeks ago
But what does that have to do with my point? I'm talking about making sure there aren't cost barriers to voting and you're going on about people being stupid.
#464 Re: The Garden » Current Events Thread » 277 weeks ago
Axl S wrote:Smoking Guns wrote:Actually I am saying if you are not aware of issues or someone’s platform you morally should not participate in a vote for the most powerful person on the planet. Can they? Sure. Should they? Probably no.
Are you saying that for anyone where affording ID might be an issue that they are a) clearly uninformed and b) even though they have a right to vote it's actually good to create barriers to stop those people voting? That's fucked up dude.
On the status of DC, PR and Guam - as an outsider it's always seemed weird that you have American citizens that do not have the same representation as other Americans. Since congress is a key legislative body within the US it's baffling to me that people who live in these places aren't properly represented there. Seems like a serious democratic deficit.
No I am not saying that. I am saying if you are a stupid mother fucker, please don’t vote. Just because you have a right to vote doesn’t mean you should. If you don’t do your homework on the candidates, don’t vote. Stupid people voting can have consequences. This is common sense. I want people aware of the issues that have made a sound decision to vote. It is their moral responsibility to not participate if they are uniformed.
Ok, well what's that got to do with what was being talked about. You just went on a rant about wanting certain people not to vote.
I said that a concern with ID checks at stations, is if ID is not provided to all of those eligible to vote then you've created a cost barrier to voting. That's a problem for any poorer people who live paycheck to paycheck, dollar to dollar and also probably for homeless people etc. In practice it could function as pseudo-disenfranchisment.
You read that and decided to complain about "stupid" people voting. Why?
#465 Re: The Garden » Current Events Thread » 277 weeks ago
Axl S wrote:Smoking Guns wrote:If you are incapable of getting an ID you probably should not be voting. Every US citizen has a right to vote, but I don’t want every uninformed idiot to vote. If you don’t have an ID that is on you.
Every citizen have a right to vote and cost shouldn't be a barrier to that. What if someone's homeless - should they have a right to vote?
You're arguing to restrict voting access based on socioeconomic circumstance (which already is the case in some places).
Anyway, this problem is fixed with free federal issued ID.
Actually I am saying if you are not aware of issues or someone’s platform you morally should not participate in a vote for the most powerful person on the planet. Can they? Sure. Should they? Probably no.
Are you saying that for anyone where affording ID might be an issue that they are a) clearly uninformed and b) even though they have a right to vote it's actually good to create barriers to stop those people voting? That's fucked up dude.
On the status of DC, PR and Guam - as an outsider it's always seemed weird that you have American citizens that do not have the same representation as other Americans. Since congress is a key legislative body within the US it's baffling to me that people who live in these places aren't properly represented there. Seems like a serious democratic deficit.
#466 Re: The Garden » Current Events Thread » 277 weeks ago
Axl S wrote:Smoking Guns wrote:If you are incapable of getting an ID you probably should not be voting. Every US citizen has a right to vote, but I don’t want every uninformed idiot to vote. If you don’t have an ID that is on you.
Every citizen have a right to vote and cost shouldn't be a barrier to that. What if someone's homeless - should they have a right to vote?
You're arguing to restrict voting access based on socioeconomic circumstance (which already is the case in some places).
Anyway, this problem is fixed with free federal issued ID.
Unlike the UK, the US has no National ID. And no, social security numbers don’t count. Nor is your SSN card required to register. The nation is trying to create “Real ID” standards for identification requirements in all 50 states since 9/11, but the process has already been delayed several years and was recently delayed until 2023. Some people in the US are adamantly against any form of federal ID, as evidenced by those opposed to e-verify. Only in America can you register to vote with a utility bill and nothing else.
The UK doesn't have national ID either. For voting you need to be registered on the national electoral roll. This ensures a polling card is sent to your home before election day telling you what polling station to turn up and vote at. If voting by post or proxy you register beforehand in the run up to specific elections.
This form captures all the information required:
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u … otland.pdf
As mentioned before an NI number is required and if one can't be provided they follow up to verify another way. The NI is pretty much the same as a SSN, need one to work and it ties into state retirement benefits.
Like I said, I think if the federal government provides a free Federal ID document to all citizens/legal residents, then having something like an ID check is fine. I think it becomes an issue when ID is required and that isn't provided because then you have a cost barrier to voting (on top of all the other ones that are slipped in like inconvenient poll times, lack of polling stations with an area and banning of mail voting).
Reform all those at once and you're on to a winner, just implement "Need to check ID" but nothing else and you solve one problem but create new ones.
#467 Re: The Garden » Current Events Thread » 277 weeks ago
If you are incapable of getting an ID you probably should not be voting. Every US citizen has a right to vote, but I don’t want every uninformed idiot to vote. If you don’t have an ID that is on you.
Every citizen have a right to vote and cost shouldn't be a barrier to that. What if someone's homeless - should they have a right to vote?
You're arguing to restrict voting access based on socioeconomic circumstance (which already is the case in some places).
Anyway, this problem is fixed with free federal issued ID.
#468 Re: The Sunset Strip » What Are You Listening To? » 277 weeks ago
I am just binge listening to Spiritbox these days. If you don't like metal with screaming in it, still give it a listen - it's mostly just Courtney singing clean.
#469 Re: The Garden » Current Events Thread » 277 weeks ago
Axl S wrote:Randall Flagg wrote:We're the only western country that doesn't require it
This is incorrect. Quickly googling "Voter Id Laws' would tell you this.
If you want to be pendantic, sure, but none allow someone to register with a cable bill. And all require a state ID to register, and nearly all require that State ID to be present when voting. Would you please list those nations, cause the quick google and wikipedia search I did before posting my original statement just confirmed what I said above. The only exception being Australia, where voting is compulsory, which requires a State ID the first time someone registers to vote. Only 14 states in the US require ID, and those laws are being contested in court as we speak.
Point being the standard for identification in the US is vastly lower than any western nation, and only in the US can you vote in some states without an ID, which is not the case in any Western nations. But please let me know where I'm wrong, and I'd love to hear your discussion on the topic and not trying to snipe me.
I mean I live in a country (the UK) that doesn't. You need a valid NI number when registering (equivalent of SSN) on the electoral roll but when you turn up at the polls you just state your name and address. Just saying it isn't all Western countries like you stated.
I have no problem with ID at the polls in countries where folk are issued/have access to National ID cards for free. I think where none of that is provided and you rely on passports or driver's licenses, then you run into issues. Typically applying or renewing one of these things costs money and whilst it may not be a huge amount for you or I, for others it could be and is therefore a barrier to voting.
I think instead of fixating on just one aspect of this, there should be a wholesale review of the process of voting in the US and afterwards there should be widepspread reform. Things like gerrymandering and leaving people in situations where their nearest polling station is multiple hours drive away seem like big issues too. Dealing with one issue in isolation probably fixes one problem and creates new ones, got to tackle the whole piece.
Anyway, my point was 1) Other countries do mail in voting fine, without ID checks. 2) Other countries do in person voting fine without ID checks at the polls. It can be done. If I were a US citizen I wouldn't get hung up on these two issues. It's my understanding that incidents of voter fraud are relatively low and in small enough numbers when it does occur that they aren't swinging elections - happy to be proven wrong on this though.
#470 Re: The Garden » Current Events Thread » 277 weeks ago
We're the only western country that doesn't require it
This is incorrect. Quickly googling "Voter Id Laws' would tell you this.
