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#551 Re: The Garden » Current Events Thread » 311 weeks ago
There you go, Axl S. All the reasons why indefinite lockdowns are bad from the WHO. Tell me what I got wrong there.
Think we're just caught up on semantics here. Way you were speaking sounded like your takeaway from what you posted was "the WHO are against lockdowns". My takeaway from reading was "the WHO are against lockdowns as the primary method of control". Two different statements with entirely different emphasis. You came of sounding like you thought WHO were flat out against lockdowns and they should never be used. Your attitude comparing this to the flu, and your derision about face coverings as well gave that vibe.
Anyway no doubt lockdowns cause problems. It's why they should only be used when health services are on the verge of being overwhelmed or the loss of life is is potentially unbearable. Catch is you can't wait till you hit those points, you have to act on them ahead of time.
Also depends on what you mean by "lockdown". My understand of that may be different from yours because places in the rest of the world went further than the UK ever did, and the UK itself at one point went further than some places in the US. Everyone's definition of "lockdown" is different.
For reference at one point here we could only travel within a 5km radius of our homes, go outside once for a maximum of one hour of exercise a day and were to work from home at all times; if your work couldn't operate from home your employer was supposed to put you on a government scheme where 80% of your wages were covered. That was all life was for a while: no seeing anyone, no going anywhere, only allowed out once a day. And this wasn't guidance, the police had the powers here to enforce that - although these weren't massively used. Did anywhere in the US ever go as far as anything like this?
I really hope we avoid ever going back that far but it's the only thing that has been proven over here to get the rate of infection back under control once it is out of control. Hopefully we can use a less extreme measure to flatten it this time. From that base we proved we can run a partially open economy for a long period of time - but that still eventually went south.
#552 Re: The Garden » Current Events Thread » 311 weeks ago
We did the two week lockdown. We flattened the curve. 6 months later, certain businesses are still closed in my state because of our governor's lockdown edicts. It's going through the courts, but vindication 18 months from now won't put 2 years of lost income in people's wallets. My post was a direct response to PaSnow, who claims to have the knowledge to retroactively stop COVID from killing anyone in the US. You yourself just said you want a lockdown, the WHO is against that at this point. The cat's out of the bag, and every nation who has done the "lockdown" (as much of the US is still under) lets it go a lot longer than 2 weeks. Again, Michigan's governor just had her hand slapped by her state supreme court. Unfortunately our politicized court in PA feels a governor can issue continual lockdown orders without any justification.
When people refuse to get a flu shot, but think wearing a filthy cloth mask under their nose is productive, we're not having adult conversations. If you're not elderly or extremely ill, COVID poses virtually no risk to you. That's a fact. When you have a 99.9997% of survival if you're one the 2% of the population to get infected, we don't lock down the country and destroy the economy over it. Elderly people in nursing homes account for 80% of the deaths in my area. Focus on them, don't destroy everyone else's life for political points. A vaccine isn't going to save us when yokels can't even be bothered to get a free Flu vaccine today. 50k-100k will die in America this flu season. If that doesn't warrant a response, the US' inflated COVID deaths (cause we count gun shot victims as COVID deaths) certainly doesn't warrant one either.
Ok, you read the article but your reading comprehension skills suck. The WHO never said they are against lockdowns entirely.
That article you linked said they don't think they are suitable as the PRIMARY method of control and should be used to buy time and put the right systems in place which many states in the US haven't done. If they haven't done it inevitably they may need to lockdown again.
This notion that COVID poses virtually no risk to anyone but the elederly or extremely ill is BS too. Google "long covid" - this shit can have long-term affects for young healthy people who get it with even only mild symptoms.
The wearing of face masks isn't to protect yourself. It's to protect others from yourself. If you don't get that at this stage what the hell have you been reading?
And stop bringing up the flu, this ain't the flu. 50-100k Americans die in a typical year where everything is normal and some people are vaccinated. Upwards of 200k have died from COVID in a year where many steps have been taken to stop the spread. This notion that these are comparable diseases is something that needs to end.
#553 Re: The Garden » Current Events Thread » 311 weeks ago
Axl S wrote:Randall Flagg wrote:https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/hea … 960078002/
PaSnow, another one of your talking points is evaporating.
Flagg... did you read the article?
“We in the World Health Organization do not advocate lockdowns as the primary means of control of this virus,” Nabarro told "The Spectator." Nabarro said lockdowns can only be justified "to buy you time to reorganize, regroup, rebalance your resources, protect your health workers who are exhausted. But by and large, we’d rather not do it.”
They literally don't say what the headline implies. They are meant as a short-term solution to buy time and provided that time is used wisely to put the right systems in place for dealing with Covid. As mentioned in that piece... the US in general has a poor testing and contact tracing setup.
The WHO are saying get on top of these things properly. When a lockdown is used, use the time it buys effectively. Educate the public and be effective with messaging, have the systems in place to deal with cases effectively and craft a system for life to proceed as normal as possible whilst keeping rates of infection low. If countries (I suppose in the US everything is so decentralised a lot of this is down to state level) don't do that they'll be yo-yo'ing between opening and closing their societies for a long time.
Of course I did, I don't link articles I haven't read. This article is one of many sating the WHO's point - I chose it to avoid the hyenas questioning source. The WHO also said we've doubled global poverty with the shutdowns. As Europe and much of the US is debating shutting down again (Joe Biden is running on shutting down), I felt it important to point out that as of today the WHO is against shut downs. The harm from locking people inside for weeks the destruction of the economy is just as bad if not worse than the questionable death toll being parroted by pro-Biden media. Up until May, the WHO was antimask. PASnow lives has a time machine and/or doesn't perceive time as linear as the rest of us.
Dude, that article states the WHO are against lockdowns as the primary means of control and that they should be used to get organised and put the correct systems in place. It does not state they are entirely against ever locking down. It is also well documented that they said masks were not massively effective at first to stop the rush on supply as health and care facilities around the globe were stretched for PPE.
US does not have the correct systems in place so some form of lockdown to buy some time to put in place the measures the current admin failed to seems smart.
The UK is taking aworst of both worlds approach, trying to slowly re-add restrictions that individually aren't enough to stem the growth rate, thus ensuring that we'll be left with no choice to do something close to a full lockdown again. Would be best just to implement a harsh two week lockdown with the required financial support, fix up what's broken and then slowly re-open again.
#554 Re: Guns N' Roses » You are the new manager of Gn'R, what do you do? » 311 weeks ago
I quit, because this job is torture.
#555 Re: The Garden » Current Events Thread » 311 weeks ago
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/hea … 960078002/
PaSnow, another one of your talking points is evaporating.
Flagg... did you read the article?
“We in the World Health Organization do not advocate lockdowns as the primary means of control of this virus,” Nabarro told "The Spectator." Nabarro said lockdowns can only be justified "to buy you time to reorganize, regroup, rebalance your resources, protect your health workers who are exhausted. But by and large, we’d rather not do it.”
They literally don't say what the headline implies. They are meant as a short-term solution to buy time and provided that time is used wisely to put the right systems in place for dealing with Covid. As mentioned in that piece... the US in general has a poor testing and contact tracing setup.
The WHO are saying get on top of these things properly. When a lockdown is used, use the time it buys effectively. Educate the public and be effective with messaging, have the systems in place to deal with cases effectively and craft a system for life to proceed as normal as possible whilst keeping rates of infection low. If countries (I suppose in the US everything is so decentralised a lot of this is down to state level) don't do that they'll be yo-yo'ing between opening and closing their societies for a long time.
#556 Re: The Garden » Current Events Thread » 312 weeks ago
Ignore him mate he is just looking for a reaction. He has no cred after making a fake account to troll and abuse the karma system.
Sad.
People who make fake accounts to troll a mostly quiet Guns N' Roses fan forum's karma system are badass. 
#557 Re: The Garden » Current Events Thread » 312 weeks ago
Did you guys see that reporter who criticized Trump for taking his mask off so the White House released footage of her doing the same thing?
There's no excuse for this. If it's bad for one person to do it, it's bad for all. The excuse that she doesn't have it doesn't fly either. It's about prevention...you don't need to be physically ill to wear a mask.
I know I keep harping on this but I am sick of this being politicized.
I haven't seen this, got a link?
It is bad for both to do that BUT, it is worse for the president. He sets an example and gets the airtime.
Like you I don't understand why masks are politicised. All the other measures whilst I don't think they should be politicised I at least see how they become so - they impact the economy etc.
Masks don't do that, they are something that enables us to get on with our lives in as close to a normal way as possible and minus a slight bit of discomfort when wearing them they don't interfere with our lives at all.
#558 Re: The Garden » Current Events Thread » 312 weeks ago
There are prosecutors who want to get him where their barrier currently is that he's the president. Even Mueller intimated that part of why he didn't go further was because charging a sitting president is the responsibility of the senate.
I can't see him out of the limelight once he's gone
#559 Re: The Garden » Current Events Thread » 312 weeks ago
The legal action he will face after his presidency will keep him in the news permanently. And it's a catch-22, it's not like such events can't be reported.
#560 Re: The Garden » Current Events Thread » 312 weeks ago
He’s tweeting like a deranged lunatic again...is this a good sign for his health?
It's a sign. Of what? Who knows.
