You are not logged in. Please register or login.
- Topics: Active | Unanswered
#681 Re: The Garden » Current Events Thread » 277 weeks ago
So you don’t agree with the very first thing I said which is there is a system of oppression of black people in this country. You point to drugs as if to say “it’s their fault.”
Your second paragraph is a euphemism for “black people do it to them selves.” It ignores hundreds of years of context.
I’m asking you to explain what “system of oppression” means. It’s a vague term. No, I don’t believe a legal system of oppression exists. But I do recognize a disparity in childhood environment.
To provide a solution, you need to define the problem.
I didn’t say anything of the sort. Poverty increases likelihood of less opportunity, and encourages criminal activity. You appear to want to have it accepted without qualification that people of color are inherently worse off by virtue of some oppression you’ve yet to define. If you feel so strongly this system exists, you surely have reasons that an objective party can independently verify.
#682 Re: The Garden » Current Events Thread » 277 weeks ago
If you don’t think there is a system of oppression in the USA that keeps black people in a pervasive, disadvantaged state, I don’t know what to tell you. Black Lives Matter isn’t about Marxists, it’s about fundamentally changing the aforementioned point through unity. That means it’s not just black people saying BLM it means white Americans have to share responsibility for where we are, acknowledge our inherent privilege in this country, and advocate for change.
What kind of change? And who gets it? I don’t believe in declarative statements about people solely on their skin color. Assuming someone is worse off because of their pigment is soft racism.
I’m all on board for social programs that educate and mentor at risk youth. But adults in 21st century America are able to reach the middle class if they’re average intelligence and avoid criminal activity. The only way to break the poverty to violence cycle is increased policing to remove the violent, criminal elements. They exists regardless of ethnicity, so efforts should be focus where it’s most prevalent. But my opinion is at odds with the BLM movement, and I’ll assume at odds with yours as well. But how else do you remove drugs and people willing to use violence, but through force?
#683 Re: The Garden » Current Events Thread » 278 weeks ago
There’s that condescending and disrespectful tone we’ve all grown accustomed to
No, he responded to my post saying claiming this was some coordinated attack with Trump, members of Congress or any larger group is mere speculation. It still is. He posted a response with more speculation about a tweet from a man who wasn't there and who has no credible allegation of plotting the riot, and gave snark about speculation.
Wanting to believe something is true doesn't make it so. And believing something is true and claiming validation over information not available or related at the time, isn't evidence of intellectual prowess. It's speculating. That's all I'm saying, no more no less. The President was impeached for supporting an insurrection with no statement suggesting the Capitol be stormed. And this forum's post have been filled with people looking to find reasons of a larger conspiracy. That's not a difference of opinion, that's speculation with no basis in known evidence. You're free to believe you can read minds, but intelligent thought and our judicial system don't give any credence to such claims. That's not being mean, that's pointing out an obvious point anyone who had to write an academic paper knows.
#684 Re: The Garden » Current Events Thread » 278 weeks ago
Randall Flagg wrote:What you’re speculating about isn’t known. It’s speculation. You nor the narrative you’re following have provided any evidence of a “plan”. When a law enforcement agency and not a progressive politician looking for attention make that claim and provide evidence, I’ll give it its due consideration. You’re embracing the latest conspiracy from the same outlets and actors that have deceived you repeatedly.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.
How about you demand the same evidence you required of Trump sycophants calling conspiracy.
And less than 48 hours later the DoJ make public that they have substantial evidence that some of the rioters who stormed the capitol planned to kidnap and murder the VP. Further to that there is more today about the involvement of law enforcement officials and possibly members of congress, capitol police now investigating.
Just baseless speculation though.
Meanwhile Rudy accidentally tweets out a screenshot today of him texting James Sullivan (Proud Boys member and related to John Sullivan who ID just mentioned) colluding to blame "John and the 226 members of antifa". Then appears to discuss getting Kash Kelly out of trouble, who is the guy linked below. OR he's talking about Kash Patel who works in DoD, but former seems likelier.
https://www.chicagotribune.com/suburbs/ … story.html
and Rudy screenshot:
Giuliani tweeted out someone’s phone number from texts and a reference to “Kash” pic.twitter.com/aaqumQ1aGQ
— Maggie Haberman (@maggieNYT) January 15, 2021Fuck knows what's going on there honestly but it's... suspect.
Yes, just baseless speculation. Who planned and coordinated it? What was their goal other than to get in. You’re speculating. To borrow your own words, if you don’t understand the difference, I can’t help you.
But I wouldn’t expect someone who defends Antifa to see eye to eye with someone who’s lived real violence and opposes political violence.
#685 Re: The Garden » Current Events Thread » 278 weeks ago
The best way to help black communities is working with local community groups who are regularly at odds with outside social justice groups
Yep. We just had a record homicide rate in Pittsburgh, I assume it is similar nationwide. Nearly all of them are east of the city, in the black neighborhoods and very few get solved because the community doesn't want to "snitch". An infant was shot in his crib in a drive by, and not a single march or rally for justice. But Jacob Blake is shot after removing the tasers, resisting arrest and holding a knife 1000 miles away, and shit gets burnt down.
#686 Re: The Garden » Current Events Thread » 278 weeks ago
I think we can all agree on being anti fascist... and proud boys are mainly a shady chauvinist group, but have held joint rallies with BLM!
Social Security is not the same as what they're calling for. We're talking the end of the United States completely. No freedom of speech or press or opposed thought. This not merely socialism or communism, this is extremism.
This is where you guys lose me in that "these" extremists aren't as bad as "those" extremists because I like the message these guys have... but you are really downplaying that message.
There is also a not so subtle antisemitism movement in those groups too.
The leaders of Antifa and BLM are also connected to and supported the Nation of Islam, the largest hate group and largest anti-semitic group in the US according to SPLC. You know who took photos with Farrakhan, yea Obama and Clinton. Can anyone show me a picture of Trump with David Duke?
https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate … tion-islam
Why won't these republicans stop supporting racism! Antifa is standing up against racists!
#687 Re: The Garden » Current Events Thread » 278 weeks ago
Randall Flagg wrote:Proud boys are anti fascism too, that's why they beat the shit out of people who attack strangers for having a different opinion. Cognitive dissonance is real, and someone isn't being mean to you or talking down to you by pointing out your opinions are void of basis in reality. This is why violence happens, uneducated people support left wing violence and are shocked when the opposing side reciprocates.
They are literally a neo-fascist group.
They aren't literally anything. I don't want to be construed as defending these assholes, but one article about one member of a group isn't "literally" representative of anything. Again, their leader is a cuban named Enrique Tarrio. He's the leader of the group. Maybe you have a better history lesson than I, but fascist groups don't normally have a non-white as their leader. But find more articles with a headline that states what you want without considering the context and who's telling you what to accept.
#688 Re: The Garden » Current Events Thread » 278 weeks ago
Randall Flagg wrote:Axl S, you keep saying black people are shot disproportionately, then never qualify it when asked. Your support and empathy of Antifa leads me to believe you haven’t made any effort to qualify your opinions, but I don’t want to assume anything. So can you cite how many unarmed black people are shot versus white, and their representation in violent crime in America?
If you can’t do this and haven’t done this, maybe you shouldn’t be so sure these groups are benign as you choose to express.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6080222/
"Victims were majority white (52%) but disproportionately black (32%) with a fatality rate 2.8 times higher among blacks than whites. Most victims were reported to be armed (83%); however, black victims were more likely to be unarmed (14.8%) than white (9.4%) or Hispanic (5.8%) victims."
This shit is borne out in the stats. I don't see how it's controversial to state this.
As for your last point about higher representation in violent crime. Typically violent crime is committed by poorer or working class people. If there is a disproportionate amount of black people in that poor/working class bracket then in the stats there is going to be a greater proportion of violent crime.
I didn't say these movements were benign either. But just labelling them as either marxist/socialist/communist and saying that equals bad just seems dumb to me.
Regardless they aren't even viewed as the biggest threat to the US. Far right, white supremacist terrorism and activism is. US federal agencies back me up on that point.
And 50% of murders in this country are committed by black men:
https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/20 … able-6.xls
Your own article says that over 50% of people murdered by police are white, despite only accounting for 30% of murder offenders. So they're nearly double represented in police homicides relative to their participating in murder, whereas your figures say only 32% of police homicides are aimed at black people despite being over 50% of the demographic committing murder.
Like I said, the figures don't align with the BLM narrative. Black people are underrepresented in police homicide relative to their participation in murders. You have to do some really wonky math and ignore the overall picture to create the narrative blacks are unfairly targeted by police, because the numbers don't reflect that.
The leader of the Proud Boys is Enrique Tarrio, a Cuban. We can go by the book definition of fascism if you like, "a governmental system led by a dictator having complete power, forcibly suppressing opposition and criticism, regimenting all industry, commerce, etc., and emphasizing an aggressive nationalism and often racism."
Who are Antifa standing up against again? "forcibly suppressing opposition and criticism", hmm who is silencing dissent and is known to violenty assault any demonstration or college speaker they dislike? Was Ben Shapiro a Nazi or fascist? Ann Coulter? "regimenting all industry, commerce, etc.", hmm, what party wants to dictate commerce and industry based on their values? "a governmental system led by a dictator having complete power", we clearly don't have that in the US or Trump wouldn't have been impeached twice and mocked daily by the media, but I can link Schumer last month saying the US will change the world if Democrats have complete control of government.
#689 Re: The Garden » Current Events Thread » 278 weeks ago
Proud boys are anti fascism too, that's why they beat the shit out of people who attack strangers for having a different opinion. Cognitive dissonance is real, and someone isn't being mean to you or talking down to you by pointing out your opinions are void of basis in reality. This is why violence happens, uneducated people support left wing violence and are shocked when the opposing side reciprocates.
#690 Re: The Garden » Current Events Thread » 278 weeks ago
Axl S, you keep saying black people are shot disproportionately, then never qualify it when asked. Your support and empathy of Antifa leads me to believe you haven’t made any effort to qualify your opinions, but I don’t want to assume anything. So can you cite how many unarmed black people are shot versus white, and their representation in violent crime in America?
If you can’t do this and haven’t done this, maybe you shouldn’t be so sure these groups are benign as you choose to express.
