Ahhh...now we're getting onto something interesting

It feels really wierd to me. And especially so because I now also love the CD songs just like I loved AFD and stuff...and my problem with that is now I'm never going to have everything I want.

No one plays AFD like slash. They just don't. I'm sorry if axl hates the guy or whatever but like basicly GNR songs of that vintage...Axl and Slash own them all. So obviously the greatest thing for the entire back cataloge would be slash comming back.

Problem is...if he comes back then what of the type of stuff that bumble/bucket did that I also like...cos i can't see slash comming back as a co-lead guitarist (not that i can see him comming back at all) - but now it would be sad for me to loose those new songs (even though i know u dont like em). So either way i'm going to loose something now.

Anyway to answer your point, to most of the world, the lack of slash is a major issue. I also think the change of style is a problem for some as well. You like twat...and it's basicly like an old GNR song. I think if this GNR had done more classic rock stuff - with bumble shredding it would have gone down better. hell even the current songs with a less industrial electro feel would please people. Lets face it - the AFD audience as a whole wants that type of stuff. That's why catcher is loved in demo form - its the same song except with a ton less bullshit...even though its brian may - u get the vibe its a lot more like how the old band would have recorded it.

Now me personally I like the new style just as much as the old at the moment, it's different. But to me its like how I like chocolate but also like fries. Different shit...but all good. But i get its not like that for everyone.

However...got to say.....all that said and conceeded....i do believe the major reason it didnt take off is bad marketing...i firmly beleive most of the music public just buy up what they are brainwashed to do so by the entire media...watching a music station confirms it...image...pr...branding...it's all a lot more important than actual songs these days....and I think that if the brand functioned more normally...people could have been brainwashed into going with this GNR even though it sounds different and removed....but that didn't happen.

I dunno i guess our opinions just differ. Like I can accept any amount of critisim about how axl does stuff. No problem...this band is bizzare at times. But...for me....I just don't believe the music is bad....i honestly think these are good songs...and its all the other bullshit, loosing band members etc...that makes the problems.

Like do you think "This I love" at it's core is a bad song? What about if Slash had played one of his massive emotive solos in it? All post break up stuff u can see what the others would bring. 5'oclock would have been cool with Axl, CD would have been cool with slash...but when it comes down to it...they are what they are...and I really enjoy 5'oclock and Chinese just the way they are.

Yes...you've always said it never had a chance of reaching it...but you've clearly been saying all thread that your critera for caliing it sucessful would be it achieving those numbers. I provide the following examples:

then again here:

Then in refrence to Libertad vs old gnr:

Then in relation to david gilmour:

Seemed to me that the overarching point here was that you think the public's standard for GNR is the old albums and that sales show it hasn't reached that stanard? Is that not what you mean?

The problem IMO was that, i think it was late 06, Axl have a tentative date in 07 ..and said we'd be notifed if anything came up to mess with that....but then I think pretty much a year passed with no updates. I think that's when a lot of people got pissed off.

But i agree with what was being said earlier...the stations and stuff were all lined up for a GNR comeback...but the business side of stuff here droped the ball. GNR didn't play along. No idea why - if it was Axl or if his PR guys just didn't set up stuff right - or what the fuck caused it. But it's a shame cos it's a fucking great album IMO.

Why then was it the 14th best selling album worldwide last year? In terms of record sales last year, the album did well, it's in the top 20 albums released.

The test where you can say it sucked is when compared to GNR history. But let me ask you buz - if you set up critera for success in that any artist has to outsell or match their works from the height of their fame then 95% of bands will fail that test. U2's last few albums didn't do the numbers of their earlier works. fail. You could do that forever....hell on your assessment UYI was a failure because it didn't sell as many copies as AFD.

Does estranged suck musically because it didn't sell as many copies as Sweet Child? The quality of the music is not the issue here.

Axl's been out of the spotlight for a LONG time, the band its like 13 years since the band was huge, a lot of people know the old band is not there and don't support it on principle, the album was droped with no promo, no tours and basicly no support of any kind,  - despite these factors, it still sold to be #14th worldwide last year - and you are saying the fact that it doesn't equal AFD in record sales means that it's musically crap? Keep believing that if you want, but I'm sick of reading about the 'truth' when there isn't anything logical to what you are arguing, you keep just saying "you all don't like it because it's true" but what you are arguing is not based on any reasonable or fair minded assessment of the situation.