Back in the VR days, Duff basically backed up most of Slash's version of events, which is probably why Axl in 2002 decided to go ahead and attack Duff as "spineless" and basically a flip-flopper out for number one.

When Duff went to write his book, suddenly Duff introduced an entirely different timeless into the history of GN'R, and it wasn't Slash's.

I think Duff's words was "Slash has his truth, and that's cool. But his truth is not my truth" or something similar to that. It was Duff's nice way of basically saying he doesn't remember the history of Slash's events playing out the way Slash says.

I think that's even more interesting considering that Duff stayed in GN'R two years after Slash quit. So at one point Duff was willing to be Axl's contract player and was at somepoint on board with Axl on the future of GN'R, even if it was a GN'R sans Slash.

Anybody read Duff's book? Does it elaborate on that 1990-2000 period more?

I think so too. I'm gonna make a longer, bigger post to elaborate some thoughts you guys have stimulated in me in the last few days.

Agreed. This is what I always felt. Slash was/is so talented that Slash didn't even need to surround himself with a vocalist. Slash could've recorded legendary instrumental albums, or even went into soundtrack work as well and been quite the prolific musician on that front.

This has been the biggest thing that has plagued me in my love of Slash. I WANT TO LOVE Slash... but I just don't. Most of his work leaves ALOT to be desired, and unlike quite a few of the Slashites around here, one great guitar solo in a song, surrounded by shit, does not make it a great song--period.

Slash fucking nailed it on that Hey Joe guitar work, but again... Steve Winwood, who I like, imo was not the right vocalist for that song. Izzy would've been a better choice vocally, because imo Winwood is actually too good and Hendrix had kind of a gravely, earthy, and a little bit shitty voice--but it worked beautifully for his music.

That's why I was always such a big fan of the VR-concept with Izzy & Duff sharing vocal duties on four-piece guitar-driven band. GN'R basically sans Axl, and if Izzy would've had his way, that would've been it. I think the music would've been great, because it would've been straight up GN'R side-songs, like albums full of Dust N' Bones/14 Years/So Fine-type tracks.

Slash just refuses to surround himself (not counting Winwood, Cox & Mitchell) by talented enough people. Imagine Chris Cornell & Slash, Jerry Cantrell, and maybe Jeff Ament or someone and Dave Grohl on a full album as a group. That's what i'm talking about. I LOVED IT when Slash performed with Lemmy & Ozzy. Perfect blend for his guitar, but these guys ain't just pretenders, they are rock Gods. These guys know what they are doing.

Even Axl went on and pieced-together parts of GN'R from other talented, or undiscovered acts from the underground that have serious skillz.

Slash to me just always comes across as preferring to perform with literally the kind of bands that Sammy fucking Hagar would perform with, and imo that holds him back. Especially his ecclectic taste in vocalists.

According to many who have already been exposed to the final product are saying Axl's vocals have been massively re-touched to Live Era-levels.

Can't remember where those interviews/quotes came from, but I definitely read them from newssources. The first Izzy one was around 2001-02 area during the whole shakeup of Robin was in, then Robin was out, then Robin was back in, and all of the sudden Buckethead was in as an additional guitarist out of nowhere. There was an actual story I read that basically said that Richard had already been contacted before even the Rio show. Now whether or not that was to take Robin's job or Paul's job... who knows. Izzy did a seperate interview that said he was contacted around 2000-01 about coming back, and talks broke down, and then he went on a rant about how Axl was a dictator and fuck that noise and really painted Axl as a nazi, and showed his loyalty for Slash from that point forward, until 2006 when he did shows with Axl and that verson of the band. One is to assume that Paul (as well as Gilby) were both always considered a benchwarmer for Izzy's return, as Paul (and Axl) never took Paul serious as a full-time guy, and Gilby's made other similar remarks as well.

Now the other statements came from Richard himself where he said he was considered for lead guitar duties from day one and that he was only relegated to rhythm guitar duties because Axl suddenly got a bug up his ass about Buckethead joining the band (not Richard's words).

This is why (the second time), that when Ron was brought in in 2006, that the band cold shouldered him the way they did, and according to Ron to this day. Richard was supposed to take back over where he was supposed to be back at lead guitar 2 with Robin.

Which leads the question.... who the fuck was supposed to be at rhythm guitar?

I think you are looking at this an Axl's motives the wrong way. You are coming at ALL of your opinion from a perspective of a power grab, and nothing else. But like ID stated, Axl himself stated, he had other motives for making a play than just "i'm an egomanical dick" which at the base core of your opinion is pretty much what you're saying in a nice fancy way.

And that's not saying your opinion doesn't have merit, but it's entirely one-sided as well. We have to assume for you to be right, that Axl is a full-blown heel here and that Slash is an innocent babyface, which is far from the truth if not closer to being the opposite.

Yes you are correct in that Slash was involved in business dealings, such as picking bandmembers early on, but Axl has stated before what his intention was during this period, and the plain simple fact is that Axl gave the band simple stuff to do, because it was in their wheelhouse, and it's better for the band to choose who they want to play with than the vocalist.

Axl didn't TAKE OVER business when it got successful, in the sense you are presenting. Axl and the GN'R machine was EASY when Slash was more involved. Slash also wasn't near as advanced in his substance abuse, per his own auto-bio. When Slash really got neck-deep in heroin abuse and started having random OD's, around the 1988-89 period was when Axl started making more of a play. Axl also had a TON of people in his ear, telling him to replace Slash or make other arrangements, because Slash could be dead tomorrow, no different than Slash had Alan Niven in his ear telling him to fire Axl and get someone more reliable before it takes off. The problem was by 1988-89, had EITHER of them been shown the door, the band would've been effectively over, or possibly would've never even got off the ground. Even to this day when people say GN'R they usually mean "Axl & Slash", no different than "Mick & Keith" or "Steven & Joe" or "Roger & Pete".

Axl made it clear in numerous interviews that Slash & Duff were more involved early on before all the major success came, because it was simpler. They were a young, hungry band, with a small time manager and low priorities, other than making sure they kept themselves in drugs (even Axl), pussy, booze, and probably not that order. It was fun, and those were their bonding days, such as the infamous Seattle trip. But by 1988 when they took off like a rocket, suddenly lawyers were getting involved, the band were doing more and more drugs to cope with numerous things from success, to road lag, addiction, and suddenly going from a fledgling band sharing biscuits n' gravy and their cokes with each other at Denny's, to having a big enough check in the mail to buy anything they want and to finally get off the streets and their mother's couch. That was enough of a big pill to swallow, but suddenly ALL of them were in over their heads. The business was no longer about hanging out with Marc Canter, writing a tune, and simply 'talking about' WHEN they make it. They were now made guys. No different than the Jersey mafia. And once you're made guys, no different than on The Sopranos, there are bigger and more important responsibilites, other than booking dates (Slash) and picking out a drummer (Slash). Axl was then thrust into a world that Slash & Duff wanted nothing to do with, dealing with the stuff that bores EVERY FUCKING ONE. I took Business Law, and have a continuing background in law, and even I HATE the Contract Law section. It's the most boring aspect of Law. Yet it's the most important financially. It can make or break you. Literally. Slash & Duff were too fucked up to get that (otherwise they wouldn't have willingly signed over their bandname to Axl). And Izzy was a fucking gypsy. No way he was going to be involved.

In other words when everything got really technical and boring and hard on the business side... they disappeared. But Axl picked up the ball. His work. His win. Even steven imo.

The others then wanted everything to revert back to the way it was by the time they were touring in 1991, but so much had changed by then. The band about fell apart in 1989, because NO ONE was talking to each other and no one knew where the other was. Izzy & Steven were in horrible shape in their addiction, and Slash wasn't far behind. I didn't read Duff's book, so I don't know much about him during this period, and the interviews Axl was doing in that 1989-90 period, you could hear in Axl's words the doubt that he was casting over the future of the band even then.

Thus his big play when the re-negotiation in 1990 doesn't shock me based on his interviews of the time. In Axl's world, I don't think he even felt Slash would be in the band in the next 5 years, even if Slash was alive. Steven was already fired, and I think Axl still felt he could lean on Izzy & Duff (like now), even then, and of course Izzy decided to quit and leave him, and Duff cozied up to Slash, because as we know now they were BOTH hardcore alcoholics & junkies at the time, which just re-inforced Axl even more to gain control.

Even if Axl back in the day makes it clear his intention to take over, I think Axl's motivations were far more of a serious concern over his vision of Guns N' Roses and what it's future would be. Now even by the UYI recording sessions in 1990 when Axl basically decided to just record seperately, I cannot judge what his feelings were during this time, whether he chose isolaton from the band because of A) he prefers to record that way, or B) Axl looked at the band as the band and himself seperately as the true brain child behind the band -- who knows?

Regardless... I FLAT disagree you that Axl did this as a simple power play because he was a dick that wanted to take his band's band. Bullshit. They were fuck offs, enjoyed being fuck offs, and their behavior even drove away one of their bandmates as a scapegoat (Steven). Axl did what he did to protect GN'R, it's future, and his own business interests and percentages in that franchise and what it would become. Business is business. This isn't a Gene & Paul situation, where I truely believe Gene Simmons & Paul Stanley colluded with each other to steal KISS from Ace Frehley & Peter Criss.

Yeah, but again I come back to you understanding Axl's motivations. Get inside his head. Axl is not crazy in the traditional sense, but in the un-traditional sense, and thus imo -- the right sense. Regardless of anyone's opinions about Axl, Axl saw the business from David Geffen all the way down to Alan Niven as different versions of blood sharks all swimming in the kiddie pool that had exploded into the Pacific Ocean that is GN'R. You as an artist yourself know that the bigger you get, the more people want to take your creation from you. I know I would have a HUGE problem splitting hardly anything that comes from my musical art, unless it's just cutting percentages of the take with the band themselves. Outside of that, you get scale. Obviously the business doesn't work that way.

But understand Axl's point of view. Axl trusted NO ONE then, MORE than he does now. This was an abused, paranoid kid from the midwest who saw everyone as Out Ta Get Him... 'cause they were. The cops, his step dad, his mom, a truck driver that wanted some teen ass, and now Axl's new villians were suits n' ties and drove Mercedes in far nicer offices and homes with hotter wives and daughters than the world Axl comes from.

How did Axl react? He put up self-defense walls like he had since he was a kid. It was trust no one, and if anyone questions you--kick their ass.

All this motivation went into how Axl saw management. Just a bunch of thieves. So he trusted no one, yet with an outfit that big, he had to trust someone and a passive, runt like Goldstein was the one for the job. The last thing Axl wanted was a head strong, old school manager type who wanted more control of the band, like Niven.

But no different than Niven's comments, even today, history has FULLY vindicated Axl on Alan Niven. Alan Niven is a doucheturd that has remixed timelines, and now just makes stuff up out of thin air to continue obsessing over Axl. Not the band. Not the period. Not the firing. AXL. Axl foresaw it, for all the right reasons for Axl, and all the wrong reasons for the band, and he cut the cancer out before it spread. If my manager was trying to get me fired, i'd flex my muscles too.

Good for Axl as far as i'm concerned. Niven just wanted a huge slice of that GN'R Pie, and Axl threw him a donut and a smile, and I would've probably did the same.

Izzy stuck with Niven, because Niven was jobless and familiar. Nothing more.

So he was a dicator? So what? Again, I haven't seen one other natural born leader in the band... other than Axl. Not one. Regardless of who owns the name.  Slash said Axl didn't like Steven back in the day, because Steven would get in his face and tell him to knock his bullshit off. Yet Axl was the last one to vote Steven out of the band for firing. If Axl was such a dictator, wanting to strategically and systematically get rid of strong-headed figures in the band, why not take the moment to give Fred Coury the perminate job, or someone else? Didn't happen.

Matt claiming Axl was a dictator again is inconsistent. Matt claimed like years after his time in GN'R ended that Axl was a dictator, and that it was Axl that basically told him "him or me". Axl said Matt came in looking to get fired, picked a fight, and Axl fired him. Later Matt basically admitted... yeah that's what happened.

Yet if you go back to the 1990-91/92 period, Matt talks about how Axl basically let Matt do whatever Matt wanted to do or he felt was best on the drums, and how cool Matt thought Axl was because of that. And that the only song Axl came to him, as well as the band, and basically said "do this, don't do that" and basically orchestrated the whole things was... not a shock... Estranged.

WOW... what a dictator!

I have never bought ANY of Matt's stories about Axl, that were elaborated elsewhere. I think Matt was particularly close to Slash & Duff and took their lead. Period. And that's pretty much what Matt has done since 1990 when he was hired. Matt Sorum is Slash & Duff's to Axl's "Dizzy Reed". Not sure how much credibility is there, because we know they know whatever their boy knows, and not much more.

Hell if Slash's stories about Matt wanting to kick Axl's ass for the late shows are any true, if I were Axl I would've fired him on the spot. No way a fucking replacement player in MY band is gonna tell me like 8 months into the job that he's gonna kick my ass because of X & Y. Fuck him. I'm shocked Matt was there as long as he was. And now Matt has basically said he wants back into the band, without saying it. I couldn't ever see Axl being interested, unless it was a reunion tour, because Steven is too unreliable.

As for the other stories of Axl being a dictator, i'm sure they were true. Again it comes back to when you have no leader, and someone as alpha as Axl... someone has to play the part. Nobody looked terribly focused at the time, other than him.