If Fink is gone it would allow the band to put the silly 3 guitarists concept to bed once and for all.

95% of the songs Axl plays live were written with 2 guitar parts: a rhythym part, and a lead part that bounces off it. Playing these songs with 3 guitarists either causes people to be on stage doing fuck all for 1/2 a song, and/or duplicating the rhythm part already being played - which does nothing except mess up the balance of a sound that was designed for 2 part harmonies.

Yes 1 or 2 of the new songs have parts that utalise 3 guitars at once (Maddy comes to mind). However this needn't be an issue...they could still have overdubs on the album. Live, well, just play the strongest lines audiable in the mix (which is basicly what 90% of bands do anyway when peforming songs live). The same way that Axl will sing 1 vocal line live when on the albums he mirrors his own parts in backup/harmonies/overdubs etc. Most of the time the playing of the 3 guitars at once live just leads to a blur of sound or mixing problems anyway. Especially in maddy.

So now that you all hate me for saying all that. Why don't we address why we have 3 guitarists on the album anyway? Is it part of some grand political statement from the band? I don't believe so. I think its basicly because Robin - as talented as he is - is NOT good enough to be the lead guitarist in GNR. Or he refuses to play in the traditional style for those songs. Now I know I'll get flamed to hell for saying that. But hear me out. Robin has some definate skills and beautiful sound - which I guess is why he was never fired from the band - hell he wrote "better" which is a kickass song, and the AWESOME solo in the "The Blues", and i'd guess some other great stuff on the album. So i'm not a total hater of him.

But he has his problems too. I'm not sure why - if its just differences in his style or whatever - but he either can't or won't do justice to MANY of the solos on the old records. And I find that really shocking from the lead guitarist. I think its why many people winge about reunions - those guitar lines are classics just the way the lines of the singing melody are. If VR sang a GNR song and changed the tune dramaticly they'd be boo'd, hell even if axl did it, there would be some eyebrows raised. You don't mess with the lyrics to things that are famous like that. Likewise...some of those solos are famous the same way - and they need to be reproduced faithfully. Perhaps not note for note -  but at least with most of the key phrases of the record intact with some room for improvisation to keep it fresh and fun each night. As long as it still honours the bits we know as "the song". Yet robin often gets up there and plays solos that are drasticly different from the 'official' version. true I think some people hate him just cos he isn't slash - but I also think if he (or some other GNR guitarist) played the songs closer to how they actually used to sound there would be far less complaints. Richard does this to an extent - and I think tharts why he cops less abuse about his solos. Anyway - for whatever reason robin doesn't play them "right". It was even worse and outright shocking to me in 2000-2 (I was surprised they would even play a public gig like that) - and i'll grant him that theres been improvments of late - ie 2006 and 2007. But its still some of the issue.

So getting back to my point. I think bucket was essentially brought in, in the first place to do the things robin can't. Robin has some great bluesy tone (love his solo spots he does on stage) - and that went part of the way to replacing slash (which as much as slash is a bad word on GNR forums - lets face it - Robin the man was hired to replace the lead guitarst) - but he doesn't have the speed slash has. So you bring in bucket - a man who can outplay slash in speed many many times over. But robin had obviously contributed much in the way of the bluesy solos in the new songs (eg the blues) and 'better' and whatever else we dont know of. So it made no sence to get rid of him. So why not keep both. Hense we have 3 guitarists. Hell - when robin left last time - axl all but said that now robin was gone they'd be able to use better and more technically skilled guitarists. he said something about "taking the parts that step further" and that he hasn't been rude enough to say it to robin previously.

Anyway...if he is gone again. The need for 3 guitarists vanishes again. All this could be solved by choosing a lead guitarist that is appropriate to the style of the old music. I don't think bucket is the man for the job - although he has skills to mop the floor with slash - as in general his shred style and electronic tone don't suit many of the old songs. True he can play with beautiful emotion when he wants to. But will he want to? He turned the nighttrain outtro into a shred-off....which i'll grant is kinda cool...but  would he do that to all the songs if he was the only lead guitarist? Also as the poster above says...much of his gimick just doesn't gell with GNR.

Ron has more potential to work. I think a Ron/Richard combo could be interesting. Although I must say when i saw ron live i thought his tone was WAY too processed. He had that electronic sound happening. Also - i'd be happier if whoever the lead guitarst became took the time to learn everything associated with the band - even if theres fuck all chance of axl playing some of it. I mean some people say its "bullshit" when fans call for a reunion. But then I ask what is it when one of the 2 lead guitarists in GNR doesn't know what "Double Talking Jive" is? Its not like its some demo or B-side song either. I mean its not "cornshucker" or something...we're talkign about a track from one of the bands massive albums. that's the bullshit. And when people call for slash some of them probably want slash - but I think others are just offended at this kind of thing, or at robin stlyle re-arrangments of guitar parts that are world famous. Get ron to play them all live, and honour the style of them (which is is easily proficient enough to do) and I think the reunion nonsence would go away.
I'm not anti ron -  he joined the band way fast and in a strange replacment role of the 2nd lead guitarist. And he does have amazing guitar skills, and is fan-friendly, and the 'don't cry' thing shows he does have some respect for the older stuff. So i'm not anti Ron - I think he could be interesting if given the chance to be the real lead guitarist. But even he isn't quite a perfect fit to me - unless he adapts what he does - which he might.

However...the need for 3 players could have been avoided all along if someone versitile like him had been recruited in the beginning. Someone like Doug Aldrich - who can shred with the best of them - so he can play the shreddy bits axl wants in the new songs - but he also can play the blues in a style that would be respectul to both slash and robins recorded works. He could nail that stuff and it would be as good or better than the originals I think. If robin is gone. thats what GNR needs to do - go back to 2 guitarists and hire someone like Aldrich who can cover all bases and is actually a proper fit with the band.

Well...I bet you all hate me now!! Watch my karma go to like -100 overnight.

I've got tickets to that Aussie show...hanging out for it. I saw a solo show of his here a few years back - and in a smaller venue he blows the fucking roof off!

Much as I like Izzy I see him as the least important to a reunion. His actions over the years show the last thing he likes about the band is the drama and bullshit. So I can't see him getting into a position where he is resoponsilbe for all the negotiatins and dealing with everyones attitudes and drama.

Izzy is more the kind of guy that if others plan an entire reunion show, then you approach izzy and see if he's up for it, and if he thinks it will be hastle free and fun then he'll show up.

I don't want to make this an Old vs New Band thread. But I just don't understand the thinking of some fans.

Like I understand JB digs the new band, and really likes fink. That's cool. And i can see why he'd be upset if they left.

But I don't understand how anyone can really say having Slash and Duff in GNR would be "bullshit". Even if they like another guitarist. What's "bullshit" about the people who (with Axl) made the band famous, and play on the albums we have, appearing at the shows playing their music?

If anything what is Bullshit is the situation now. Where business or legal issues or whatever have prevented a new GNR album from surfacing for countless years. Where the GNR band tours with 1 member of the AFD line up yet plays almost exclusivey their songs. Where VR has no singer who can come close to Axl, and now none at all. Where VR play AFD songs with the vocals not right each night, while Axl plays AFD tunes with the solos not right each night. Yet everyone from both camps makes a lot of hot air about how they're doin fine without the others and have moved on creatively. Right before they BOTH relaunch their next semi-GNR shows. One under the offical name righrs and one under a similar name. That's what I call bullshit.

For the record, I don't think we're going to get a reunion from this. I think both Axl and Slash are too fixed on their own viewpoints of the situation for that to happen just yet. And if people love the new band too that's fine...hey I really like the leaks and robin's playing on the blues and stuff. But I just can't see that it could ever be "Bullshit" to have the people who made the music actually playing it.

Totally agree.

I think the Baz is dated is just one of those internet catch phrases. If we want to be like that - Slash is dated - his whole sound is 70s rock on steroids. But slash is awesome at what he does, and so is baz. VR need to stop trying to be what they arn't. They arent a STP grunge band with no solos. An old school Slash and Baz album would be old and new at the same time, and could be huge!