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Re: Alternate artwork (NEW scans inside!)
"In the other May 1, 1998 amendment, see Hoffman Decl. Ex. A, Axl Rose agreed, among other things, to deliver that new studio LP (which was even then long overdue under the Recording Agreement) no later than March 1, 1999 and received a substantial advance from Geffen in return."
The record company wanted it out by March 1999. However, the new band was only together for a year at that point. No way the album comes out then. No Bucket at that time either....most likely the record was good enough for release from Rio Jan 2001 to US Tour in late 2002....that is the timeframe it should have dropped.:/
Re: Alternate artwork (NEW scans inside!)
I finally got the scans up and read everything. How on earth did this not get released as the official booklet? It is really good all the way through.
After actually reading all the accurate lyrics with the intended artwork and essays, I came to realize what an extremely well written album this is from a lyrical point of view. The music may be messy, but the lyrics are clear as a bell after reading them in detail and digesting Axl's ramblings.
You are a lucky man Russ. I am so pissed I may give my version away as a form of protest. What a fucking shame....:headbang:
Re: Alternate artwork (NEW scans inside!)
Winds me up the whole 'fan thing'. Seems at another forum I shan't mention it would appear that to be a 'fan' it means you must unconditionally love, support and agree with everything the band does. Even if that means turning up at shows 1-2 hrs late and then having the set cut, releasing scented candles as merchandise and discrediting other singers to push your 'idol' to number one in polls.
Its healthy for any organisation to have a diffrence of opinion amongst its members/followers/fans/employees etc. GNRevolution is a great middle ground between the stupidity of some forums and the blind loyalties of others. More people should come here!
Scented candles? Did I miss something?
As far as the whole "fan" thing, it's a fine line. At a certain point, if ALL someone does is bitch and whine and criticize, or if that is clearly the vast preponderance of what they do, it's a fair question to ask them or a question for them to ask themselves, "are you/am I really a fan anymore?".
A difference of opinion is healthy. It's also fair for a fan of the new era of GN'R, like myself, to want to be able to discuss the new lineup, the live shows, the new music, without the constant flame-baiting and trolling comments of people who only like the old band.
Again, it's a thin line and a tough balance.
Ali
Re: Alternate artwork (NEW scans inside!)
Chinese should have been out in 1999
Not only do I disagree but a 99 release would have been impossible. Many involved in the project at the time said the music was there but there weren't enough vocals. A GNR album in 1999 would have been Oh My God with a bunch of instrumentals.
It's one of the things I hate the most about the CD saga. Fans were led to believe(even by Axl himself) that an album(and maybe two) were on the horizon in 99 when in reality the exact opposite was true. The hottest producer at the time(Moby) was dying to work with Axl(and vice versa) but had to bail because nothing was going on. In that one Moby interview, he even stated Axl got pissed when Moby brought up the lack of progress at the time.
Would love to see the alternate universe where Moby jumps on the CD train in late 2000-mid 2001 instead of mid-late 90s.
Album would have been shit anyways. Songs didn't improve and the bulk of the work didn't happen until Bucket entered the equation.
most likely the record was good enough for release from Rio Jan 2001 to US Tour in late 2002
I know Axl has talked a bit about the making of the album in the chats and a couple Del James "interviews", but he didn't dive in deep enough for my tastes. Its crystal clear his "prolific" moment occurred in 2000-01 as the vocal tracks were finished(or near finished for those that want to split hairs) and the music started to evolve once Bucket and Brain were brought in.
Take just one song for instance. When that initial turd IRS got turned into a song worth listening to, he should have realized he had a great lineup in place and struck while the iron was hot. Obviously there were many reasons for out of control delays, but he should have really pushed this thing when he had a chance.
I'd love to know how he felt once those guys joined. Not the drama between Bucket and Stinson or Bucket and Finck, but how Axl himself felt about the album evolving musically in such a short time frame due to getting the right ingredients in place to actually do something. Regardless of all the bullshit, the times he spoke of the album in that two year period, he was very confident. The infamous comments after the VMA performance killed all that though.
Even if he got my pipe dream lineup in place to record an album(Thayil, Frischmann, Shepherd,etc.), he will never replicate the situation he had in 2000-01. What makes this all the more tragic is he's had a very bland lineup for four years and they haven't recorded jack shit.
Like you said, such a shame....
Re: Alternate artwork (NEW scans inside!)
Many involved in the project at the time said the music was there but there weren't enough vocals. A GNR album in 1999 would have been Oh My God with a bunch of instrumentals.
Either fallacy or misunderstanding.
Sean Beavan recorded a good deal of vocals with Axl at the time. CD, IRS, The Blues, CITR and TWAT are among the songs which had at least demo takes courtesy of Axl.
The vocals were not there in 1998 (as confirmed by Moby, Youth and A&R men), but they were there a year later.
edit to add:
Found the liner notes.
Axl’s main Vocals: Chinese Democracy, Prostitute, If The World, There Was A Time, Madagascar, Riad N’ The Bedouins, I.R.S., Street Of Dreams recorded by Sean Beavan, engineered by Critter, re-edited, processed and engineered by Caram Costanzo.
Over half the vocals were recorded in '99 and edited further. The mind boggles.
- monkeychow
- Rep: 661
Re: Alternate artwork (NEW scans inside!)
The real mystery to me is what happened between 2002 and 2006 or so.
It's clear from 2006-2008 the time was spent playing shows, and getting bumble to record his parts, mixing up, and brokering the release deals.
But it seems the raw basis of most of the songs was there in 2002. I'd be really interested to know what happened for the 4 or so years before bumble seemed to arrive and end the log jam.
If you want to talk about alternate worlds. I would have been interested to see how the 2002 tour would have been accepted if Axl's voice had been closer to how it sounds now - with the rasp back - and if he'd used 1 lead guitarist - buckethead - for every solo. I know the fink fans wouldn't like that. But I'd be interested to see how it would have gone. It still would have some issues - bucket's apperance, the lack of slash or whatever, but I think it would be really interesting to see what people thought of it. Cos it seemed to me most opposition at the time was because bucket was clearly talented but under utalised, robin was altering the famous solos and axl sounded different.
Re: Alternate artwork (NEW scans inside!)
Merck's letter to NYT following their enlightening article in 2005 should give you an inkling.
Sir - I find it remarkable that the New York Times - a newspaper of some repute - has chosen to run an article on the making of the forthcoming Guns N' Roses album Chinese Democracy without even bothering to talk to anyone who has actually been involved in the making of the album.
You quote 5 people on the record all of whom with the exception of Tom Zutaut have been out of the picture for between 6 and 9 years and like the author of your article have never even heard the album! Tom Zutaut himself has not been involved for three years and has heard virtually none of the actual record.
Your journalist Jeff Leeds - is this the return of Jayson Blair under a pseudonym? - contacted us last Thursday the 24th of February to inform us he had been working on an article about the "process" of making the album.
I explained that it was not possible for him to write such a story as he had not spoken to the band, our 2 engineers, myself or most importantly Axl all of whom have been working on the actual album for the last two years and enquired how he could write an investigative report with any integrity without doing so.
[Followed by loads of gibberish]
Sincerely,
Merck Mercuriadis
Chief Executive Officer
The "actual album" was made from 2003 onwards. The songs (and a lot of vocals) remained the same, tho.
- monkeychow
- Rep: 661
Re: Alternate artwork (NEW scans inside!)
Facinating....
I think that's a classic GNR example of how it's all in the interpretation of the words and what things mean to different people. Although that's Merck talking not Axl, I notice alot with Axl that he tends to focus on particular words people use or he'll phrase his comments in a specific way. Hard to explain what I mean, but I think a lot of GNR miscommunication or examples where people say band members lied and so forth is really all about the choice of words and what they mean by them.
Like in this instance, I wonder if Tom Zutaut had heard the songs but just not the more recent arrangements or if he'd literally heard nothing. It's all in the phrasing with these things.
Anyway that is interesting, I guess a lot more went into the development from the demo versions to the end tracks than we realised.
I must say I think the final versions on the album are the best I heard...so delays aside I think the process worked in the end.
